McMonkey's Bonaparte 2 Development

[McMonkey]

Before I begin I would like to ask if it is acceptable to post a development thread in this forum?

The game I am building is specifically for PBEM and I would really like to get input from the people who may play it. If it is not acceptable to post here I don't mind being removed

This project is aimed at making an upgraded version of John Ellis' classic 'Bonaparte' on a larger map. The one I am using is roughly twice the size of the original. Hopefully this will expand the possibilities of gameplay. I plan to use the same units, tech tree and events and stick as close as I can to the original. However, I thought it would be a good opportunity to add any extra ideas, tweaks, fixes etc.. that you can suggest.

My initial ideas:
1, The chanel between Calais and Dover will be two squares wide. I propose giving Invasion Barges a movement rate of 1 to allow the British Navy an opportunity to sink the invasion fleet. Of course Merchantmen will be able to transport individual units as usual.

2, I will cut out some of the less strategically important North African and Middle Eastern cities to make Europe room for more European cities.

3, I know some may not like this idea but I think Spain is too powerful in the current game. There is not much scope for the Peninsula War between Britain and France. I would like to find a way to resolve this.

4, Movement rates will need to be increased slightly to compensate for the larger map.

Please let me know what else you would like to see!

Note: The attached screenshot shows the map in development. I need to take some cities from Russia and add them to France and Spain!

[McMonkey]

And an early screenshot. Some cities will stay, some will go!

[academia]

My initial ideas:
1, The chanel between Calais and Dover will be two squares wide. I propose giving Invasion Barges a movement rate of 1 to allow the British Navy an opportunity to sink the invasion fleet. Of course Merchantmen will be able to transport individual units as usual.

2, I will cut out some of the less strategically important North African and Middle Eastern cities to make Europe room for more European cities.

3, I know some may not like this idea but I think Spain is too powerful in the current game. There is not much scope for the Peninsula War between Britain and France. I would like to find a way to resolve this.

4, Movement rates will need to be increased slightly to compensate for the larger map.

1) no way! that makes the invasion barges units quite useless. please, because my invasion of england in our pbem was rather sucessful, you MUST NOT take it as a fact or as the only possible outcome of a french invasion to england.
Dont take it as "the common result"

2) dont know... i like the current city distribution.

3) wtf?? spain too powerful? if that was true, you´d have seen lots of spaniards helping france in our pbem.
No way. spain even has the worst defensive infantry!! dont punish spain.

4) ok. seems reasonable.


here´s an extra idea: if you find room, add some "heroes" like blucher, napoleon or wellington.

[Dario]

1- Yes, if you play england smartly, you will see that there is no room for an invasion. there were various pbems that the british player combined the fleet toegether with Line Infantry units, and england wasn't touched.

2- You will have to do it, i guess.

3- you are right, Portugal is always defeated by Spain in the long run, but Portugal has 3 cities and Spain has all the civ settled there. what do you expect of that??? . also, I agree with Academia.

4- do not increase the movement of each unit, but raise the road multiplier factor from 2 (current value) to 3 or 4.

good luck.

[McMonkey]

1 - Interesting. I may be reading too much into the results of the current PBEM. The way I see it is that historically France never launched a successful invasion of Britain. This was due in a large part to the Royal Navy's deterrent. The way things work now, the French can cross the channel and land troops in one turn, rendering the Royal Navy useful only as a garrison!

I don't agree that invasion barges would be rendered useless. If they are given a high unit capacity and are stacked with the French fleet for the one turn that they are vulnerable. The objective of the French invader will be to strike when the Royal Navy cannot intervene or to try and gain mastery of the seas before launching an invasion. If the French want to land troops anywhere else along the coast they can use Merchantmen. Barges would have only been useful for very short crossings on calm seas! I believe the Germans faced similar problems when planning Operation Seelöwe!

I am quite willing to be persuaded otherwise if someone can provide a good argument

2 - With the increase in map size there is space for more cities in France and Germany which were more relevant to the Napoleonic wars. Juggling the cities around is difficult but I will try and balance things out so that none of the Civs loose out. The barbarians are static so the absence of a few of their cities should not upset the gameplay too much. I also plan to free up some more space by disbanding a few of the players cities and redistributing their populations to the new cities or to other cities within their realm (IE Figueira-3 disbanded and population to Porto and Lisbon etc...)

3 - OK, that is not popular by the sound of things. My alternative solution would be to beef up (strengthen) the British defences so that they may hold out long enough to be reinforced. Maybe a few fortresses would do the trick.

To me it seems a shame to miss out on the opportunity of the Peninsula War, one of my favorite theatres in the Napoleonic wars! I have had a look through the previous games to gage the most likely alliances and outcomes.
Again, I am more than willing to take on board any suggestions!

4 - Increasing the road movement multiplier would seem like a good solution. This would keep the game the same at the tactical level but allow slow units like artillery the chance to get to the front in reasonable time. Transporting artillery from Russia to France already takes several years

5 - I really like the idea of some hero units. There is space where the musketeers (original CivII) slot is. I need to check the events but I think I could replace Partisans as they do not do anything in the game (correct me if I am wrong!). I think Fortresses and Jannisaries would be adequate for the Independents so I can lose the Turkish cannon and so on.

The tricky bit here is making the heroes valuable but not too powerful. If anyone has suggestions for stats go ahead! I think there is only room for a few, if anyone has ideas for Austrian, Swedish, Spanish or Russian characters then let me know. I would be inclined to use the ones Academia has mentioned as space is tight.

6 - Another idea I have been toying with is a Spy unit. It would be used for intelligence gathering only (Investigate city). It is possible to block out the incite revolt, steal technology etc... options by altering the GAME file. Would that be fun / useful?

[Civilionaut]

zu 1)
ich meine hierzu genügt eine HouseRule, so daß Units eine Runde auf See zu parken sind, damit kann eine Invasion nur mit entsprechender Flottendeckung erfolgen und die Frachter können nicht mehrfach pro Runde benutzt werden

daneben stört mich insbesondere der Umstand, das Schiffe das beste Mittel zur Stadtverteidigung sind, hier wären also die Werte deutlich zu reduzieren oder auch eine Regelung über HouseRule zu schaffen

da hiervon England besonders betroffen ist, muß es mit mehr Festungen in Portugal bestückt werden


außerdem:
auch für Russland den vollen Forschungs-/Technik-Bereich
die Änderung der Def-Werte für Frankreich wieder aufheben

[Historical Atze]

You have to strengthen France in my opinion. Not too much but a bit because in this new scen I have never seen France win.

I cannot see why their infantries are weaker than those of the other European nations. Historically it was quite different.

[McMonkey]

Your points are noted. One question. What does "Forschungs- /Technik-Bereich" mean? It does not translate into English.

Some other ideas have cropped up during a discussion with Atze. I have posted them hers so that we can discuss their merits and so that I can keep track on what I need to do

1 - In addition to the barges question is the point that Britain never invaded across the Chanel. To represent this the French coast will be given some fortresses to defend the cities. The British can still make a landing but taking a Chanel port will not be a pushover!

3 - British Portugal needs some fortresses to help them survive until reinforcements arrive from Britain. This way there is the possibility of the Peninsula war.

7 - France needs to be more powerful, both offensively and defensively. After all, Napoleon did conquer Europe. In the current and previous games this has not happened. This is not the fault of the players, it just seems that the game is a bit too balanced! A few more French cities and some strengthened units should help fix this.

8 - Italian cities need to be made more profitable to conquer, both for France and the other nations.

9 - This is a new concept in the game. In a way it is a house rule and a bit of role playing. When France captures either Berlin or Wien then the Prussians and Austrians become the vassals of France and must stop hostilities. This may be reversed when the cities are liberated by another power. For example, France captures Wien. Austria must stop fighting and allow the French access to their territory. If Austria is attacked by a third party (for example Russia) then they may defend themselves or ally with the French. If Russia were to liberate Wien the Austrians are free to ally with Russia and fight the French again (in which case Russia would hand back Wien to the Austrians). Alternatively the Austrians may decide that their lot is better with the French and they may stay on their side, or they may remain neutral. The capitals are the key to this House Rule.

10 - A similar rule would apply to Madrid and the Spanish. This time it would work for both the British and the French (or any other invader).

11 - Another part of rule 9 would be the effect of the capture of Wien or Berlin by the French on the Russians. Presuming France captured one or both of these cities then the future would look bleak for the alliance. Russia would be next on the menu. To give the Russians a chance of liberating the Austrian or Prussian capitals it would be given a technology via an event that would allow the construction of the Hoover Dam wonder or a new, stronger unit.

Something like:
Berlin captured > Russia gets tech allowing the construction of the Hoover Dam (Renamed)

Wien captured > Russia gets tech allowing construction of new Guard type infantry.

These events could be undone when/if Wien or Berlin is liberated (IE Hoover Dam becomes obsolete) so it would only work once. Of course if this was the case a clever French player would take Berlin, allow it to be recaptured and then take it again! I never said this was a perfect idea It will need a lot of work!

Keep the ideas coming

[Historical Atze]

Forschung = Research
Technik = technology
Bereich = Area

[Dario]

Your points are noted. One question. What does "Forschungs- /Technik-Bereich" mean? It does not translate into English.
3 - British Portugal needs some fortresses to help them survive until reinforcements arrive from Britain. This way there is the possibility of the Peninsula war.

I agree, also this will force Spain to use her fleet to prevent british reinforcements. As the map is really large, sea areas are larger too, i have never seen outstanding naval battles in this scen.

btw: should Gibraltar be placed on a mountain? if you fortify a Vet Three Decker there, you won't never be able to capture it. May be a hill instead of a mountain plus one Fortress unit stacked there would give a chance for the attacker.

7 - France needs to be more powerful, both offensively and defensively. After all, Napoleon did conquer Europe. In the current and previous games this has not happened. This is not the fault of the players, it just seems that the game is a bit too balanced! A few more French cities and some strengthened units should help fix this.

Well i played a Pbem as France where i was fighting against Prussia, Austria,Russia. I won a couple of battles against them, and they decided to surrender and stop the game. most people think that defeating prussia and austria, the game is over. May be Point 9 and 11 would help to reverse this mind.

Of course if this was the case a clever French player would take Berlin, allow it to be recaptured and then take it again! I never said this was a perfect idea It will need a lot of work!

hehe, if i was still clever than this clever french player, i would capture all Prussia but Berlin. same with Austria and its capital. taking advantage of the events is something very common in various players.

BTW2#:

Transporting artillery from Russia to France already takes several years

what if you use "RR" (use another name, special road,etc) to link far cities with Moscow?.

good luck.

[McMonkey]

Good stuff!

12 - Gibraltar built on hill instead of mountain as it should become invincible city. (Have just amended this in the game!)

13 - Naval units range needs to be completed to compensate for larger map.

Points 9 and 11 seem to be the way forward. Some fine tuning will be needed to avoid people exploiting the events. As the map is so big, leaving Berlin or Wien in the rear could be risky. It also means the French player may have to continue fighting that Civ to the bitter end instead of gaining a peaceful vassal and being able to concentrate on Russia alone.

More consideration is needed to perfect this concept

I don't want to dictate exactly how the game should be played. I suppose the idea of Civ is to be able to alter history and play it your own way!

At the moment I am sorting out the cities, which is my favorite part of the game. Thank god for Carl Fritz's CivCity utility!!!!!!

[McMonkey]

Update:

I have finished the map (see attached) apart from a few minor tweaks tht I am bound to make. I have been using Wikipedia extensively to check which cities belonged to which nations in 1803. I have changed some cities, addes some and lost others. I think the balance is about right now. France is stronger by +10 cities!

The technologies were quite quick and easy to swap over so each nation builds the correct units now. Next up is adding improvements, wonders and units. After that I need to alter the events file and units stats plus setthe objectives. Then I will be ready to start implementing the changes we have discussed.

Should be ready within the week. I may not release this until we have finished the current PBEM game as I do not want to take attention away from that. That will also give time for individuals to test it, add improvements, fix any bugs and polish it up

[McMonkey]

And a screenshot of the Rhine

[Sephiroth]

gfx look kinda ugly to me

Doesn't Gareth (Fairline) have some nice alternatives?

[academia]

nice map!
just two suggestions: one more city in denmark and maybe 2 more in portugal? one more in ireland?

and i like the cities graphics set. but it´s just me... most people prefer the other style. i remember having a discussion topic some years ago in apolyton about the "nemo-style" vs. "real/photo style" graphics

you should include both options.