Belle Epoque 4 Discussion

[Sephiroth]

First of all, Belle Epoque 4's new trade ratio brought some new realism to the game. It's no more longer a shipping of almoust all goods to just one city.

At Belle Epoque 3 it was like all goods were shipped to New York or London. And even undemanded goods at NY were merely or more lucrative than a demanded to e.g. Rio de Janeiro.
But now there is the problem of that the supplies of your civ do seem to have a strong influence, as they didn't before. That for "Islands" do have a big advantage. The Civ2 Engine counts all Europe/Asia/Africa as ONE continet. Same continet generates very less trade. Meanwhile Japan, GB and USA can trade to Europe/Asia/Africa and Pacific and GB USA and Japan, All European power lack on having the chance to trade to Europe/Asia/Africa.

If I ship Berlin goods to India i gives back like NOTHING!

Regarding this unbalance it imho would've been necessary to fix all supplies/demands via civcity. So that European countrys do supplie very demanded goods at other continents at most percentage.

I do not say, it is impossible to be strong as European power, but I say this new trade ratio makes trade issues unbalanced.

[Dario]

Regarding this unbalance it imho would've been necessary to fix all supplies/demands via civcity. So that European countrys do supplie very demanded goods at other continents at most percentage.

I do not say, it is impossible to be strong as European power, but I say this new trade ratio makes trade issues unbalanced.

it has been tested that changing supplies via civcity, then the engine reset all to a standard factor programmed in the civ2.exe engine. also i strongly suggest to do not touch aspects that are handled directly by the engine itself.

[Sephiroth]

it has been tested that changing supplies via civcity, then the engine reset all to a standard factor programmed in the civ2.exe engine. also i strongly suggest to do not touch aspects that are handled directly by the engine itself.

If thats the case it seems like unfortunately the trada ratio has to be risen up to guarantee a balanced game.

[Civilionaut]

Es muß noch weitere Aspekte beim Handeln geben, die insbesondere USA und Japan begünstigen. Ich erreiche nicht annähernd die von Dario genannten Erlöse, auch bei der Forschung hinken alle anderen den beiden hinterher. In 16 Runden hat USA 10 Ziele, Japan 6 Ziele erreicht.
Mit der Entente brauche ich 5-6 Karas für ein Ziel, so schnell kann ich sie aber garnicht transportieren.

P.S:
bitte mal für Dario/Eivind übersetzen

[Historical Atze]

Es muß noch weitere Aspekte beim Handeln geben, die insbesondere USA und Japan begünstigen. Ich erreiche nicht annähernd die von Dario genannten Erlöse, auch bei der Forschung hinken alle anderen den beiden hinterher. In 16 Runden hat USA 10 Ziele, Japan 6 Ziele erreicht.
Mit der Entente brauche ich 5-6 Karas für ein Ziel, so schnell kann ich sie aber garnicht transportieren.

P.S:
bitte mal für Dario/Eivind übersetzen

Direct Translation:
Other aspects have to be regarded that favor especially USA and Japan. I cannot possibly get the trade results Dario describes and also concerning research all lag behind to USA and Japan. In 16 turns USA has reached 10 research-goals, Japan 6.
With the Entente I need 5-6 caravans for one goal but I can't possibly transport them so fast.

[Sephiroth]

Es muß noch weitere Aspekte beim Handeln geben, die insbesondere USA und Japan begünstigen. Ich erreiche nicht annähernd die von Dario genannten Erlöse, auch bei der Forschung hinken alle anderen den beiden hinterher. In 16 Runden hat USA 10 Ziele, Japan 6 Ziele erreicht.
Mit der Entente brauche ich 5-6 Karas für ein Ziel, so schnell kann ich sie aber garnicht transportieren.

P.S:
bitte mal für Dario/Eivind übersetzen

Naja es ist natürlich schon so, dass Eivind und Dario sehr erfahrene und gute Spieler sind, zudem kennt Eivind das Szen ja wie seine Westentasche. Frachter rushen, um mehr Trade Goods transportieren zu können hilft sicherlich auch - aber ich bleibe dabei: So sehr ich mich im Moment z.B. abmühe udn jeden Handel bis ins kleinste Detail logistisch vorplane, ich komme niemals auf diesen krassen Forschungstakt!!!


Short translation:

Dario and Eivind are known as experienced and capable players (though they say, the Argentinian guy is a little retarded! ) and you have to ackknowledge that Eivind knows his scen best. Also there is the possibility to rush more freighters, if you have problems to transport your goods. But still I say: As much as I work hard researching right now and do plan every little detail logisticly, i will never reach such a fast researching progress!

[Radyserb]

Und Russland ist sowieso am Arsch...

[Civilionaut]

Und Russland ist sowieso am Arsch...

das war beim 3.1 auch schon so

[Sephiroth]

Eivind.. What do you think about an update like with all new developments of Belle4 but the trade ratio of Belle3? That would be the best solution in my eyes. Perhaps you could rise the costs of trade commodities that for.

It seems like most people have lost interest in continuing this PBEM and get frustrated. Also you could fix that non-working Rebel unit if you wish. Or leave it out completely. After that we restart our game with the same players and nations.

[Eurisko]

May I also suggest that communism be made available as a government form?

It should be weakened a bit, but one shouldn't be stuck with no government research throughout the whole PBEM.

And make it hard to get but worth the while.

[battosai]

Oh, I got a gap in my Civ2 wisdom, I believe... Where can I see and control the trade ratio ?

Also, I haven't noticed big differences to the PBEM before in trade issues.

[Eivind]

I'm playing Germany at Apolyton and I'm doing fine. I've played all nations in 3.1 and as Russia I grew to be the strongest nation. It's all how you play the game. Rush build, incremental rush, disband units, get trade out early on. As Japan I am currently out of export goods and I need more land. And Dario would have his progress nomatter what nation he played. Look at games where he has played and study his style, and you might learn some neat tricks.

If you decide to restart then do so without me. There's nothing wrong with the game.

[Historical Atze]

Hmm, well, Seppi might be a bit fast with his conclusions. Yet he has a point and this one is you two are doint a lot better than "we".
Now the question is why.
As I cannot see you play, I cannot answer this but I think that you are very experienced players and just know how to play this kind of scenario better, especially you since you are the creator, but this absolutely legitimate situation might still be frustrating for others and - honestly - who would be insane enough to go to Poly, download Dario's whole bunch of savegames and hope that by only analyzing them could get better in Civ2 ?!? It is not that I say that this will not pay off ... only the effort .

My own experience is that Italy in 3 trades quite good and Turkey in 4 trades almost not at all - but the Ottomans do not generate too much arrows so this might be the reason. I cannot compare it because I played different nations.

I played the Ottomans, too, in an SP-game and didn't research much. Might this be because I am not the best player (not the best trader at all) or because of the scen or because I do not know tricks years of playing at Poly could have taught me, it still makes me contemplative.

There is definitely almost nothing wrong with the game (almost = bolshevik-event *g*) it is just quite unconventional concerning trade - it seems to me.

[Eivind]

Upon creating a PBEM FAW for Apolyton I wrote down the most obvious PBEM "tricks". Take a look at that at least if you don't want to study turns (#15).

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=162866

[Historical Atze]

Very nice, thank you . But at least when I am concerned all of these "tricks" are already known to me.