Freier Thread für irgendwas

[Pie]

Ich sags ja. Hart. Aber vielleicht ganz gut. Wieder eine Wachstumsbremse somit eingebaut. Ich würd das aber auch bei Hügelresis machen, da die Einheiten ja eh relativ billig sind. Könntest du es mal probieren, Flunky?

[HUNK]

I have been thinking about reservist. One of the critique was "I have a superunit 12 strenght and then I only can recover a shielbearer".

Instead only one type of reservist, I thought four. I did the icons (yep, the body of the general and the head of the reservist) in the warlords_atlas_2.dds:



The first, an archer reservist: all units of the archers or skirmishers categories , will be an archer reservist.
The second, a mounted (horseman) reservist: all units of the mounted, chariots o elephants categories, will be a mounted reservist.
The third, an infantry reservist: all units that they aren't the first, second o fourth reservists.
The fourth, the special unit for each civ. In this case, it represents an evocatus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evocatus). If we are Rome, and we have a veteran princeps, triarii, legion (all), praetorian (all), we can add them to the city as a retired legion. Then, we can reclaim as evocatus (with marian reforms). The shield will change for other object with other civs. The first three will be common for all. I think that I will need 8-9 special reservists (and their respective new units).

If we reclaim them:

archer reservist: the best archer unit than the civ can train.
mounted reservist: the best mounted unit than the civ can train.
infantry unit: I don't know. A normal spear or sword.
Special unit: the special unit of the civ.

Yields for each reservist compared with the old (1 , 1 , 1 ):
archer: +1 , -1 (2/1/0).
mounted: +1 , -1 (1/2/0).
infantry: w/o change (1/1/1).
special: +1 to great general (1/1/1).

Some units will be infantry for some civs, but specials for themselves. Example: Rome with their legions, praetorians, etc. If other civ has an unit like a legion (defected), if he is added, he will be a normal infantry. I need to determinate, the specials units for them, and the unit that they can reclaim later. With Rome (or etruscans) I have a model:

Achtung Spoiler:

The second, imperial legion. sword unit, 8 strenght, veteran, promotions: loyalty and drill, +4 gold to extra cost.

For other models, I can search.



I can do all the xml files, the icons, to change some models or to search them. But I can't do the python code. What do you think?

[Pie]

Hunk:
your idea is good, but it's again a new feature with loads of additional programming. I'd prefer to include it later on.
I accept the possibility to add different reservists into a city (like combat types: archer, axeman, swordsman, spearman, mounted)
I don't know if adding a special unit is a good idea. there are lots of special units and even more than one per civ! even those elite ones.

And I don't know how to make them cost more expensive, for that roman evocats got double salae as the normal legionary.

for the buttons: they have to be transparent backgrounded (alpha channel) so those are different to normal buttons.

I don't know what you mean with the different legion skins. although it's worth to look twice, otherwise you don't easily see their difference...

[HUNK]

Hunk:
your idea is good, but it's again a new feature with loads of additional programming. I'd prefer to include it later on.
I accept the possibility to add different reservists into a city (like combat types: archer, axeman, swordsman, spearman, mounted)
I don't know if adding a special unit is a good idea. there are lots of special units and even more than one per civ! even those elite ones.

And I don't know how to make them cost more expensive, for that roman evocats got double salae as the normal legionary.

for the buttons: they have to be transparent backgrounded (alpha channel) so those are different to normal buttons.

I don't know what you mean with the different legion skins. although it's worth to look twice, otherwise you don't easily see their difference...

Of course, it is not for right now, for this patch. It's a project that I can spend some time.

The reason for a special unit is for to have a good motive for "to destroy" a superunit (like bersekers, praetorians, argygaspirade, sasanids, etc). Those units only can be used if we add, previously, other good unit. But they will have a purpose, defend the city, they will not be for to win a war. And if there are difference between units, it will be more "personal".

The evocati are historical 100% (even they were evocati augusti, retired praetorian, but with one is enough), and this would be very well integrated with reservist feature. That unit only can exist with reservist. And evocati cost more with the extra cost (xml), +4, instead +1 or +2 for a legion.

DDS. I know it, I know it I use DXT5/ARGB/interpolated alpha/no mip maps. That image (of reservist) is a jpeg for the forum. The forum can't accept dds.

I mean different models for other civs, I dont need more legions. Example: searching in civfanatics I found a falxman, a very good falxman, a two handed weapon, without shield. This could be the special unit for Dacians. And celtics, britons, germans, could have other (so if we sacrifice bersekers, belgians, night riders, tribal chief, etc, in other moment, we will have the choice to reclaim a good unit).

[Pie]

Of course, it is not for right now, for this patch. It's a project that I can spend some time.

Good

The reason for a special unit is for to have a good motive for "to destroy" a superunit (like bersekers, praetorians, argygaspirade, sasanids, etc). Those units only can be used if we add, previously, other good unit. But they will have a purpose, defend the city, they will not be for to win a war. And if there are difference between units, it will be more "personal".

ok

The evocati are historical 100% (even they were evocati augusti, retired praetorian, but with one is enough), and this would be very well integrated with reservist feature. That unit only can exist with reservist. And evocati cost more with the extra cost (xml), +4, instead +1 or +2 for a legion.

So you mean, evocati as special unit for Rome (and Etruscans) only?

I mean different models for other civs, I dont need more legions. Example: searching in civfanatics I found a falxman, a very good falxman, a two handed weapon, without shield. This could be the special unit for Dacians. And celtics, britons, germans, could have other (so if we sacrifice bersekers, belgians, night riders, tribal chief, etc, in other moment, we will have the choice to reclaim a good unit).

ok, make a list of special units (ordered reservist) for each CIV.

DDS. I know it, I know it I use DXT5/ARGB/interpolated alpha/no mip maps. That image (of reservist) is a jpeg for the forum. The forum can't accept dds.

I don't mean that. I mean there are two different buttons in CIV:
a) buttons for Techs, Units, Pedia stuff
b) buttons for bonuses shown in the city bars or yield types or city specialists. they are fully transparent. just try it, add a specialist with a normal dds button and you will see what I mean.

[HUNK]

Evocatus will be an unit only for Rome and Etruscans. When I say special, I don't allude to UNITCLASS_, Info file, with their special 1,2,3, elite units 1, 2, etc. It's an unit, normal.

Look, finish. Even the icon is different (with the correct shield). Well, it needs pedia.

Achtung Spoiler:

I have mod unitinfo, unitclassinfo, and definesunit. No more 5 minutes. But they must be created in the file, I thought that I could in a new file (to avoid old units, with my units), but I can't. However, with texts I can.



About the list, I'm doing that list, and I have discovered a fault:

With all civs, I can build princeps. Princeps need roman knowledge.


About dds, dont worry, look:

Achtung Spoiler:

I know how an alpha channel works. I have moded other games. And I spent a lof of time with textures...

[Pie]

oh wow. great. I didn't know that you're such an experienced modder!
ok, so prepare everything for this feature.
and think about how to manage this exploit: adding a shortbowman to a reservist and back again to a reflex bowman (you would save upgrade costs).

the better the concept and preparation of this feature, the easier I can add this. with your knowhow in preparing things (your graphical experience), I could think, that it may come in that patch too!

Frage in die Runde:

Wieviel Beförderungen hat in etwa eine Einheit, die Kriegmüde I erreicht hat?

[Flunky]

Glückssache. Hatte es schon nur mit Sternen, aber gerne auch 2-3 Geländebeförderungen auf Stufe 1-3 dazu.

[OnkelMeta]

Frage in die Runde:

Wieviel Beförderungen hat in etwa eine Einheit, die Kriegmüde I erreicht hat?

Weniger als man denkt. Grade wenn man so 10 bis 15 xp aus der Stadt mitbekommt, bekommen die Einheiten (welche es im Zufall erwischt) die Kriegsmüde 1 durchaus nach 3 bis 5 Promos und nicht vielen Kämpfen...


Salve
OnkelMeta

[HUNK]

A report about my progress:

I have the list, units that will be reservist:

Romans and Etruscans: Princeps, Triarri, Legions (3: hamata, segmentata and merc), Praetorians (5: normal, coh, guard, and the 2 mounted), Coh. Urbanae, and the reservist (evocatus).

Achtung Spoiler:

Germans and Vandals: Tribal Chief, Berserker, Night Raider, Belgian Warrior, War band and the reservist (I don't know yet).

Gauls and Celts: Tribal Chief, Belgian Warrior, War Band, Arvernian, Gallic Warrior (the merc too), and the reservist (I dont' know, will be the same than germans and vandals).

Britons: Tribal Chief, War Band, Fianna, longswordsman* and the reservist (I don't know).

*When a civ has 4 or less good units, the longswordsman is a "joker".

Iberians: Cantabrian horseman, Celtiberian cavalry, longswordsman and the reservist (I don't know).

Ilyrians: Hoplit, Mountain Warrior, longswordsman and the reservist (same as germans, britons, etc).



Dacians: Falxman, Thracian horseman, longswrdsman and the reservist (and two handed falx, it will be a noble or something)

Achtung Spoiler:

Huns: Sythian Horse Archer, Hun Marauder, longswordsman and the reservist.

Scythians: Sythian Horse Archer, Thracian horse, longswordsman and the reservist (a middle armoured horse archer, same for huns and parthians)

Achtung Spoiler:

Parthians: Sythian Horse Archer, Cataphract*, longswordsman and the reservist (the middle armoured horse archer)

* I have found a good unit for Parthians, Scythians, Hittits and Lydians, a real cataphract, this:

Achtung Spoiler:

I have changed some textures and objects of the model, because it didn't work properly.

I would change the cataphract image they have now (really, it is an non armoured horse) with that unit. And I will use the Scythian cataphract (it is a mid armoured) for to be reservist with other civs.



Macedonians: Hetairoi, Thorakitai, Argyraspides, Argyraspides Basilike and the reservist (a real macedonian cavalry, with spear)

Achtung Spoiler:

Yes, I've changed the horse. It works.

Really, I would change the actual Hetairoi (a rider with sword) with that unit (new Hetairoi) and I would use the horseman with sword as my reservist.

Athens, Sparta, Thebans and Greeks: Hoplit, Hippeus, Spartiate, Hippeus Spartiatas, Sacred band, longswordsman and the reservist (a heavy infantry, a longsword)

Achtung Spoiler:

Berbers: Lybian Amazon, longswordsman and the reservist (they will have the same as egiptian, nubians, numidians and lybians, I don't know yet)

Numidians: Numidian horseman (the merc too), longswordsman and the reservist.

Egyptian: Normarc, Faraon Guard, Egyptian War Chariot, longswordsman and the reservist.

Lybians: Lybian Amazon, longsworsman and the reservist.

Nubians: Cushitic Prince, longswordsman and the reservist (Nubians, Lybians, Berbers, Egyptians, Numidians and Carthaginians, the elephant war could be a choice too).

Carthaginians: Sacred band (2: infantry and mounted), longswordsman and the reservist (a less rank sacred band, Carthaginian infantry it could be called)

Achtung Spoiler:

Hittits: Amazon, Cataphract, Three man chariot, longswordsman and the reservist (a mid cataphract as I say, used by Scythians. It would be used for Hittits, Lydians, Assyrians, Babilonians, Hebrews, Phoenicians and Sumerians).

Achtung Spoiler:

Lydians: Hoplit, Cataphract, longswordsman and the reservist.

Assyrians: Armored Warrior, Syrian Guard, Cataphract, Maryannu and the reservist.

Babylonians: Syrian Guard, Marduk priest, Cataphract, longswordsman and the reservist.

Hebrews: Syrian Guard, City Guard, Maccabees, Philistines, Cataphract and the reservist.

Sumerians: Syrian Guard, Marduk priest, Cataphract, longswordsman and the reservist.

Phoenicians: Syrian Guard, Cataphract, Philistines, longswordsman and the reservist.


Persians: Inmortal Guard, Sassanid Cataphract, Pezoi, Scythed Chariot and the reservist (I don't know, the same as Indians, I think).

Indians: Bamboo longbowman, Kalaripayatuu Warrior, Raja, Maryanuu and the reservist.





Resumed. In green, I have the model and finished, in red, I don't.

Romans/Etruscans: Evocatus.
Germans/Vandals/Britons/Gauls/Celts/Iberians/Ilyrians: some kind of heavy mounted unit. I'm searching.
Dacians: Falxman.
Scythitans/Huns/Parthians: An armoured horse archer.
Macedonians: A heavy mounted.
Greeks/Spartan/Athens/Thebans: A heavy infantry.
Hittits/Lydians/Assyrians/Babylonians/Hebrews/Sumerians/Phoenicians: a mid armoured mounted unit.
Carthaginians: An infantry.
Berbers/Numidians/Libyans/Egyptians/Nubians: some mounted unit with bonus in desert, I think.
Persians/Indians: I don't know. I have a lot of indians units, I need to choose one.


I will need to create an unit class, called UNITCLASS_RESERVIST, and all units would be in there. Those units are non buildable, but they can see the units if I put them in a tech.

All the units will have loyalty. They will be less stronger than a "good" unit, but more than a normal unit (speaman, shieldbearer, etc).


PS With the practice I learned how to change objects. For example: one horse for other, or better, a sword with an axe:

Achtung Spoiler:

The mod has a lack of axeman. With some ethnic units, I can change their weapons for axes. Or whatever.

[Pie]

Great. So, I'd say: wait till I upload the next (inofficial) patch 3 version and then you merge it into it. Then upload your changed files so that I can add this. In the meanwhile, I'll only change python files.

But what about the exploit: adding a weak veteran shortswordsman as reservist and get a fresh new longswordsman instead ?

So, with all that differences in units, would it be better, if you have a reservist for each combat type? UNITCOMBAT_SWORDSMAN, UNITCOMBAT_SPEARMAN, UNITCOMBAT_AXEMAN, UNITCOMBAT_SKIRMISHER, UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER, ...

I know, it's a lot, but it's difficult to explain, why a player gets a longswordsman when he has put an axeman into the city some turns before....

[HUNK]

Great. So, I'd say: wait till I upload the next (inofficial) patch 3 version and then you merge it into it. Then upload your changed files so that I can add this. In the meanwhile, I'll only change python files.

But what about the exploit: adding a weak veteran shortswordsman as reservist and get a fresh new longswordsman instead ?

So, with all that differences in units, would it be better, if you have a reservist for each combat type? UNITCOMBAT_SWORDSMAN, UNITCOMBAT_SPEARMAN, UNITCOMBAT_AXEMAN, UNITCOMBAT_SKIRMISHER, UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER, ...

I know, it's a lot, but it's difficult to explain, why a player gets a longswordsman when he has put an axeman into the city some turns before....

Damn, I forget to answer that...

It's very difficult to gain a veteran shortbowman fighting, they die before So, I don't see the risk (short -> reflex). I had an exploit with romans: the spearman is an ended unit (with romans). They cant upgrade. So, when I had various of them, I didnt sell. I used until they get veteran. Then I added as reservist. Then, I took out as arquites. As they were veteran, I can upgrade to Arquites legionis. Voila. I don't remember a veteran shortbowman in my games, very hard. They are passive, normally, so it is complicated.

The reservist is a late game feature. So, I don't see the risk, again, with a shortswordman. In that point, we have shieldbearer. The shortswordman was sold or upgraded.

The player never gets a better unit than he added before. As I said:

1 reservist: archers or skirmishers. All. Veterans, of course. You can get the better archer you can train. If you dont have reflex, he will be a shortbowman
2 reservist: mounted units (camels, horses, chariots, elephants). You will get a mounted unit (horseman (8) or cavalry (12)). So, no problem.
3 reservist: infantry (spears, axes, swords, whatever, and ships too). You add a longsword (12) and after can get a spear (8).
4 special reservist: the list. Every civ has 3-6 units. If they add, they will get units less stronger than the originals ever. But better than a spear or a horseman.

Each category has only 1 unit you get. first: archer (short, composite, reflex), second: mounted (horseman, cavalry), third: infantry (spear), fourth: special (if you have the tech, if not, they cant be reclaimed).

It could be with a reservist for each category, but that would be a lot of code for you, dont?

[Pie]

ok. I understand and I agree.

1) but shall we pay the reservist an extra salary for that he has to fight again? then it wouldn't be such an exploit in some cases (horseman (8) -> cavalry (12), shortbow -> reflex).

2) what if I open a popup when you click the infantry reservist where you can choose between axe, sword and spear unit? the same with archers: where you can choose between archer, slingshooter or skirmisher? too much?

It could be with a reservist for each category, but that would be a lot of code for you, dont?

I am fast in coding and I like it So, that's not the problem.

[Flunky]

Popup: too much micro on irrelevant decissions. If the veterans are expensive, we just want to draft them back to defend their city. If they are cheap enough to be used regularly, we can simply adjust and build more slingshooters and axemen, while the reservists become archers and spearmen.

Wie kommt es denn, dass Speerkämpfer eine Sackgasse für die Römer ist? (btw. ist ein Speer zum werfen, ein Spieß für den Nahkampf gedacht). Die Hasta ist ein Speer, und die vormarianischen Triarier haben doch auch einen Speer in der Hand iirc?

[HUNK]

ok. I understand and I agree.

1) but shall we pay the reservist an extra salary for that he has to fight again? then it wouldn't be such an exploit in some cases (horseman (8) -> cavalry (12), shortbow -> reflex).

2) what if I open a popup when you click the infantry reservist where you can choose between axe, sword and spear unit? the same with archers: where you can choose between archer, slingshooter or skirmisher? too much?


I am fast in coding and I like it So, that's not the problem.

1) With evocati, historically, had the payment of a centurion, at least. Because they fought voluntarily. I added +4 extra cost to evocatus, such as praetorians. But they are so strong (8 strength) as a merc shieldbearer (with some advantages: veteran, loyalty, drill, formations, etc). With other reservist will be similar.

This extra cost only for specials. I dont see a extra pay for normal units. The exploit you say... well: When we have cavalry, normally, others too. So, its very strange to capture a veteran horseman and to make the exploit. How much of that you expect to capture them? vs AI? will you fight for 100 turns with a horseman (if he has less rank) when you can upgrade to a cavalry directly? only for the veteran rank? What is better, fight with a 12 strenght unit for 150 gold (upgrade cost) or with a 8 strenght only for not to pay some coins? the others civs will have units with 12 strenght too...

2) As Flunky said, too much micro. Archer reservist: archer. Infantry reservist: spear. Anyway, that spear will be a reasonable good unit. He will be veteran (+40%) and will use formations, eg shield walls, flanks, etc.



A roman axe:

Achtung Spoiler:

The egyptians don't have a specific model either. I will use one of their model and I will put an axe in their hands.