RotD update

[McMonkey]

I have started working on the next version of Rise of the Dictators. I think the current game has been working quite well. Most of the problems encountered have been related to the diplomatic house rules. I have already made a list of improvements and I will also go through the thread and make a lits of bugs and suggested fixes.

I thought I would start this thread so we can discuss improvements. I was wondering if there would be any interest in a Test of Time version as this would greatly expand the possibilities for the scenario. Would there be enough players with ToT to get a game going?

Here are some of the fixes I have in mind for the next version:

All city names displayed from the start

Pheumatic tyres/trade commodities bug fixed

Fix bugs with diplomatic house rules (try to be as clear as possible)

Vilnius part of Lithuania by 1936, move border post.

Add winter
-Reduce Road Move Multiplier to 2 = Inf reduce from 6-4 move, Tanks on roads from 15 to 10 move)
-Increase defense factor of terrain
-Reduce Flight range (need way of warning the turn before)

Move some units nearer to start of tech tree (Para's, Heavy Armour etc...)

Add some of the improvements to tech tree

Sort out issues around the Spanish Civil War foreign reinforcements rules

Amend the house rules so that France can become Vichy under Italian control if they are conquered by Italy

The Corps artillery only useful for disbanding! (Move increased to 2 like Infantry minus the Alpine flag)

Panzer should be a little bit stronger!

Make a trading city in Europe (a little less effective than NY)

Ditch nation specific infantry for generic ones as in Appeasement (little figures!)

Fix Russia Partisan problem (USSR should get more)

Partizans can attack (No longer sub)

Sections of pre placed RR to speed up movement (replace border posts)

Germany stronger militarily (+Troops en route to Spain at start)

Nationalist Spain stronger militarily

Recon units cheaper (100 to 50 shields?)

Get USA involved sooner (potentially)

Find a way to better represent the Battle of the Atlantic

Engineers can convert Grassland/Plains etc to Defenses terrain (Use city terrain slot)

Add a house rule = No road, RR or Stackable pillaging

Add a house rule = Missile can only attack cities, not units, ships etc...

Add Sounds

Change move cost for grassland/plains to 1

Play using Civ2 Unlimited to avoid too many units

Vichy = All French Artillery, AA Tanks and Aircraft in France handed over to Germany/Italy.

Add a mobile AA unit?

Make Panzergrenadiers as good as normal infantry but more expensive

Find uses for the freed up unit slots

These are some of the fixes on my list. I will post more here as I come up with them. Feel free to discuss these ideas. I may not agree with you but I will listen

[Barthi]

+

• alle zwei Jahre neue Einheihen
• sehr gute PBEM House Rules

-

• Einheihen habe nicht in jeden Jahr andere Angriffswerte/Verteidigungswerte
• Panzer fast sinnlos
• keine Name der Einheiten (Tiger I Auf. E)
• USA zu schlecht, braucht mehr Häfen (Atlantik: Houston, ...; Pazifik: San Diego, ...)
• keine deutsche Version, Barth Brothers Mod Design würde das übernehmen.

More soon

Barth Brothers Mod Design würde auch bei der Entwicklung der nene Version helfen.

BARTH BROTHERS MOD DESIGN

Barthi

[McMonkey]

Would someone mind translating Barthi's post. I run it through my translator but I think most of the meaning was lost.

[Radyserb]

Achtung Spoiler:

+

• each two years new units
• very good PBEM House Rules

-

• units don't have each year other attack/defense values
• tanks almost senseless
• no name of units (Tiger I Auf. E)
• USA too bad positioned, needs more harbours (Atlantic: Houston, ...; Pacific: San Diego, ...)
• no german version, Barth Brothers Mod Design would take over that.

More soon

Barth Brothers Mod Design would help to develop the new version too.

BARTH BROTHERS MOD DESIGN

Barthi

[McMonkey]

Thanks both!

To answer your points

Einheihen habe nicht in jeden Jahr andere Angriffswerte/Verteidigungswerte

+

keine Name der Einheiten

This was partially due to a lack of unit slots. It was also due to a belief that units should be defined by their type and purpose rather that by their equipment. An Armoured unit would serve the same purpose whatever equipment it had. I figured that as a new tank came out a new anti-tank gun would be introduced to counter it and this way things were kept in a kind of balance.

I will use the free slots (from making Infantry generic) to make the tech race more interesting and make the units stats improve as the game goes on. I agree that the German Heavy Tanks (Panthers, Tigers and King Tigers) gave them an advantage. I will make the Allied units less powerful but more plentiful.

I will also add a German Assault Gun to represent the various Sturmgeschutz and Panzerjager. I was also considering a Self-Propelled AA Gun and some extra Naval units.

Panzer fast sinnlos

I agree that tanks need improving. I did not want the scenario to be a tank only affair. I'm glad that Infantry are so useful so I now need to improve the tank stats but make it economical to still build lots of Infantry too.

USA zu schlecht, braucht mehr Häfen (Atlantik: Houston, ...; Pazifik: San Diego, ...)

I will look at ways of improving the US. I need to fix the house rules so that the US can get involved much sooner if WWII begins at an earlier date than Pearl Harbour. By late 1941 the current scenario may already be over! Although the US doesn't have many cities it is pretty safe from invasion and can send most of its units abroad.

keine deutsche Version, Barth Brothers Mod Design würde das übernehmen.

Once I have finished this update please feel free to make a German version

With all of the above point in mind I could make a much better version of the game if it was for ToT. That said there is no point making if for ToT if there won't be enough people to play it! Let me know what you think guys.

[Barthi]

Thanks, i make a German version after the update.

You could send Barth Brothers Mod design an alpha-update and i will make my improvement and they can do this test then.

[McMonkey]

Please don't assimilate me just yet Barthi

[Alcibaides]

I have a lot to contribute to this, but i think it would be more appropriate to wait until the first game is finished. You have not given up yet have you McMonkey?

I would rather not reveal the weaknesses / strengths of particular units until the game is done as this is a tactical advantage.

[McMonkey]

You have not given up yet have you McMonkey?

Hell no. I'm still hoping to win with my new wonder weapons

I just wanted to make a start on things now as I was in the mood. I have been going through the threads making notes of all the bugs and ideas. The list is quite extensive now. I have been generally very happy with the way this scenario has played. There has been a lot of activity and the balance between attack and defense seems quite good. I have enjoyed the way that even when things looked bleak for the Allies they have been able to turn things around. In most Civ games it gets to a point where there is no coming back.

In the next version I will try to further improve gameplay, realism and try and make the game even more unpredictable. I look forward to hearing your suggestions but I can wait until the game is finished.

[Gelion]

I haven't very much to say, however in our game it is 1940 and the Germans are in Russia and Allies in Italy. Is there any way we can make the game either start later or make military operations last longer?

[McMonkey]

In this game I decided the best strategy for Germany would be to try and invade Russia while many of its troops were fighting in Spain. In retrospect that was not enough of a advantage for me to be able to go into the USSR with a relatively small army. I probably should have waited a few more years to build up a much larger force. What I'm getting at is the game is only running ahead of schedule due to a poor decision on my part, rather than the game being wrong. I have been considering ways to make this less likely to occur again in the next version so I do take on board your point

[McMonkey]

I have been busy working my way through the list in post #1 and have been coming up with some new ideas that I wanted run by you guys.

AIRLIFTS

I didn't include Airport improvements in the first version as I wanted pilots to gain experience in combat. I have now decided to pre-place a few airfields in key cities, mostly to allow airlifts. The fact that these cities can build some veteran aircraft is a bonus! The cities/routes I was thinking of were:

London - Valetta - Alexandria - British Empire

Moscow - Barcelona (and maybe Kiev - Madrid)

Rome - Benghazi (I don't want the Italians to have to many Vet planes!)

Paris - Tunis - Casablanca - Damascus

Sevilla - Budapest - Ceuta or La Coruna - Helsinki

New York (can airlift to any cities it captures with Airports)

Essen - Munich - Berlin - Warsaw

I may revise this selection to keep the game balanced. Obviously once war is declared these routes can be intercepted. I will need to test how effective this is.

This should add another dimension to the game and give players a little more flexibility. I think only Corps Artillery, Traders and Infantry units should be allowed to be airlifted. No armour)

RAILROADS

These will be selectively placed at the start of the game and no additional tracks can be built (no pillaging allowed either!). They will never be complete lines, there will be gaps. At the moment I am experimenting to see if I can get a good balance. The graphics are the same as the road except they have a telegraph pole alongside so it blends in very well.

The main use for RR will be to help speed up movement over long distances (North Africa, Russian Steppes) and to represent well developed areas with good transport links. For example Germany had excellent Autobahns which, along with a good RR network, allowed for the rapid movement of troops and equipment. Once you get to less developed areas of the map the RR network disappears and you are stuck on the roads.

Another benefit of having some sections of RR is that it will speed up the pace of attacks a bit to make them more Blitzkrieg like. It shouldn't take Infantry months to travel from Tripoli to Benghazi or from Warsaw to Moscow if they are not fighting.

I will have to play with this to see how well it works. I may just end up using a few sections (say Siberia and the Western desert) and just Increase unit movement instead.

FINNISH BARRACKS

As Finland no longer has its own Infantry unit I decided to give all its cities Barracks, both to help it heal units quickly and to give it a tough little Veteran army.

GENERIC INFANTRY

I have replaced all the nation specific Infantry (and Cavalry) with a Generic Infantry Regiment. There will be three evolutions:

Infantry Regiment*

The standard 1936 Infantry with Light Machineguns and Bolt Action Rifles

Infantry Regiment**

Meant to represent the 1940/41 generation with General Purpose Machineguns, Sub Machineguns and Anti Tank Rifles

Infantry Regiment***

Meant to represent the late war infantry units with the addition of Assault Rifles and Bazookas

+ Paratrooper/Airborne Regiment

These guys are nuts and jump out of planes!



(NOTE the unit after the Paras are Partisans who will be able to attack in this version!)

DEFENSIVE TERRAIN



I have cut the town terrain and replaced it with Defensive terrain. This has the same defense value as hills (100%) and Engineers can convert plains, deserts, grassland etc... into defenses). I have had to change the Irrigation graphic so that Defenses will show up and I quite like the result. I have made lots of other aesthetic changes too that make the map more detailed but at the same time less cluttered (well to my eye anyway )



(NOTE The RR in this image are to help me place lines, I have another one for the final game that blends in much better!)

I will post more as I think of it. Feel free to critique these ideas

[Alcibaides]

Once the game is over, I will have a lot to contribute to this, but now is not the right time.

However, seeing as the Spanish Civil War is long over, here are my thoughts on making the conflict more realistic and more exciting....

The Spanish Civil War was played out way too quick. In the real world, it took the Nationalists 3 years to capture Madrid. In the game it took just 4 months for the nationalists to capture Madrid and at that point the war would have been over if the USSR had not made a huge investment in funding the continued resistance, an investment that virtually bankrupted the Soviet Union. I am not exaggerating; I had to sell off half of the banks in the USSR to fund the war effort in Spain. This involved rush buying units and defenses every other turn in every Spanish city, this was all before my first caravans had landed. Even with this huge commitment from the Soviet Union, the war would still most likely have been lost if it was not for the timely intervention of the RAF at a pivotal turn in the game.

If you are planning to make the AA defense improvement only available after a certain tech is discovered in the next version, then I can tell you now that without being able to rush-buy those from the beginning, the Spanish Republicans are doomed!

The Spanish Civil War should be a longer, more drawn out affair, with the nationalists having a strong advantage, but not so much that they can win it in just a few turns if the Republicans do not get significant help from outside sources. I think the best way to accomplish this is to make the armies of both sides considerably weaker, that way both sides have slightly less offensive options at the beginning and both sides are more dependent on foreign aid.

The Nationalists should start with 2 bombers instead of 3, and the Republicans should start with just 1 bomber.

The Nationalist African army should consist of 6 veteran infantry instead of 10 and they should only have 1 freighter in Africa to make it slightly harder to mobilize these units so quickly in Spain.

The effect of this will be to make Franco more dependent on assistance from the Axis powers and the Republicans more dependent on potential assistance from the Allies (assistance that was elusive in the real world but gives the Allies a chance to right these mistakes in the game).

[McMonkey]

Good suggestions. I will take a careful look at this and will most likely follow your advice. Jerec, do you have anything to add about the SCW?

I need to clarify the diplomatic rules a bit more too.

[Jerec]

Good suggestions. I will take a careful look at this and will most likely follow your advice. Jerec, do you have anything to add about the SCW?

I'm not sure the SCW was all that unbalanced. In taking Madrid I had to RB Inf immediately and strip the garrisons of all the cities I had in the north. From that point on I was always stretched thin, while Alcibaides seemed to have good-size garrisons in all his cities, especially near the end. An example of that would be when I lost Madrid at one point because of a pitifully sized garrison (1 Inf, 1 tank, 1 AA IIRC).

I agree with Alcibaides about reducing the # of bombers on each side, although not about immediately giving the ability to build the AA improvement. The only reason I had a significant advantage in the air was because of Italy lending me a large number of bombers. I was only able to take 1 city with these, for the rest of the war I didn't want to lose any against AA improvements. I think being able to build AA improvements right off the bat would minimize the importance of lending bombers in the war.

I don't think minimizing the National African Army is a good idea; like I said before I was stretched thin for most of the war. Reducing the # of freighters to move them sounds better; it doesn't weaken the Nationalists, just makes the reinforcements a trickle, lengthening the war.

For the record, I was heavily dependent on the Axis (Italy) for most of my bombers and a majority of my Infantry in the pivotal point Alcibaides mentioned. The whole war (in my eyes) was basically a race to see if I could take all the eastern port cities fast enough to block off the massive Russian reinforcements. If not for Italy, my offensive would have promptly ground to a halt after Madrid for lack of troops against the heavy garrisons in Republican cities. I did try to make 1 attack with just my own troops after Madrid, but it was ravaged by Republican fighters and didn't even make it to the walls of its target.

Italian reinforcements vs. Russian cash and more reinforcements, if you will. Whoever put in the most won Spain.