New house rule:
21. Once discovered "Submarine-Based Nukes", you may only have 1 MRBM in a sub, or only 2 cruise missiles. You can't combine them in one sub (remember that missiles must be loaded inside a city).
EDIT:
Noticed this post came on a new page, so just a reminder that Rebel is up.
Btw, if you use missiles in a proxy war, do they count double as they are air units?
Also, what about nukes in proxy wars?
There's no way a nuke could be in a proxy war, considering it's price alone. And cruise missiles...hmm, I propose a rule prohibiting missiles in general to be in a proxy war, they are just too effective, and they are destroyed after hitting the target, meaning you could just fire away numerous cheap cruise missiles until cities are empty.
mmm...this is going to be a looong turn (first turn is always about 3x normal turn for me) so don't know if will be able to post tomorrow...will try though, if not saturday for sure
Don't worry, take your time.Zitat von Rebelius
mmm...this is going to be a looong turn (first turn is always about 3x normal turn for me) so don't know if will be able to post tomorrow...will try though, if not saturday for sure
Although NATO has dramatically been reduced in size, it is still much bigger than the Soviet turn since you have way more ships which have to be moved.
indeed, thanks for your understanding
Yesterday only moved the units, today city management what is even more workposting tomorrow at this time, I have a free morning so will succeed. From turn 2 all will go much faster
NATO, January 1975
To the WARPAC:
Peoples demands? Don’t make me laugh; you are not the people, you are a bunch of charlatans leading a dictatorial form of government since Stalin times only there to fulfil your personal ambitions at the expense of the ordinary hard working people killing each individual dream and ambition by limiting their capabilities and making them poor since the day they are born; people are not instruments of the government, government must be an instrument for the people, that is freedom!
World, don’t listen the words of the Bolshevik leaders, all rubbish, their decadent form of government is becoming obsolete; they are losing power and terrain and are becoming more and more isolated from the international community…we, the free nations, are winning the cold war, even members inside the communistic party are starting to doubt their now corrupted autocratic regime, very soon this depraved way of live will end and people will be free again…liberty, human values and rights is the future, a Democratic world is the final goal and we, the NATO, are here to maintain peace and freedom and will defend them against the communistic menace. For now this great alliance of free nations has halted the red tide and by one way or another, at the end, we will again defeat oppression like we did once in WWII.
You are not in a position to say anything about Okinawa or Panama, they are totally out of your business; Panama Canal was built by the USA what brought wealth to everybody and Okinawa is Japanese but we have a permanent base there to protect our Japanese friends and ourselves from you.1. The US must stop illegally occupying Okinawa and Panama.
Hong Kong will we given back in 1997 like we agreed many decennia ago, Chinese waited so long so I think they will have no problems to wait another few years respecting the treaty2. Britain has to forfeit her illegally gained rights over Hong Kong. It is rightfully Chinese, and we support comrade Xiaoping fully in his quest to reunite China.
Taiwan is ruled by the prosperous Taiwanese people, and Taiwanese people don’t want to be part of China, so simple like that. Since I’m the defender of liberty I will not tolerate any military action against the island.3. The US must withdraw support for Taiwan. It is rightfully Chinese, and any artificial divides between brothers created by western warlords can only anger the red bear's brother, the red dragon.
Religion is very important my friend (ok, not for you since it bring morality and values contrasting with your system) and it’s the base of many societies but unfortunately also the reasons of many conflicts when wrong interpreted; this have weakened India’s democratic values and tolerance, its time to reinforce those by accepting the hardly won independence of Pakistan and Bangladesh.4. The US must withdraw her support for Pakistan. The USSR cannot and will not accept a divide between brothers based on such primitive factors as religion. The democratic India and her citizens shall not be kept from embracing their muslim brothers to the west by an autocratic madman on DC's payroll. Similarly, Bangladesh must also be reunited with India.
South America is a capitalist bastion and I will do all in my power to defend their liberty. Recently we saw how communism brought Chile to bankruptcy by a spectacular inflation rise leading to Pinochet coup; may this be a lesson for everybody.5. The US must immediately cease all colonialism in south America and respect the sovereignity of Latin American nations. Not the US is the master of all the western hemisphere, the people's will must be respected, and all the chains which run from Brasilia, Bogota, Caracas, Lima, La Paz, Buenos Aires and Santiago to DC must be shattered so that the people can be free again
Now my demands to the USSR:
You created the NATO with your rampant invasion and occupation of Eastern Europe at the end and after WWII substituting Nazism with another form of tyranny; Stalinist Communism; we demand to give their freedom back! We demand to restructure your system by introducing democratic and free market reforms; make an end to the Communist Party supremacy, not only in Eastern Europe but also give total independence to all USSR’s republics
NATO-WARPAC relations:
We are also not interested in a nuclear holocaust either, let fight our differences in conventional proxy wars and don’t worry, we will not block any main routes; however we will close access to the Gulf of Mexico and Hudson Bay. Also we will not close the Arctic Sea north of Norway if you don’t do the same along the entire north margin of the map, like you said this would be unrealistic.
NATO-China Relations:
We ask China to respect Taiwan’s wishes to be independent and the treaty concerning Hong Kong until it expires.
Despite your communistic form of government we advise you to not follow Russia’s market isolation policy; Western markets will be open for you as long you do the same (we already detected both of your trading freighters heading USA) and respect Taiwan and Hong Kong’s independency from your regime.
NATO-India Relations:
Please respect the sovereignty of Pakistan and Bangladesh following the values of liberty and tolerance that once characterized the Indian nation not so long ago. Do this and you will win a powerful trading ally.
NATO-Brazil Relations:
My trusty ally in South America, may our mutual cooperation be strong and permanent, not only in trade but also to subdue any attempt of Marxist revolution in South America.
A few things about the game:
I think with the discovery of the Non-Proliferation Treaty nations should stop building new nuclear weapons or at least punish them with for example -3 VP for each MRBM and -5 VP for ICBM.
Spain joined the NATO in 1981, maybe Eivind you should include something in the events so that this happens also in the game.
Spy planes can be shot down if found in your territory right?
Also we should forbid making aerial incursions in enemy territory to investigate the border and then return back to the base in the same turn, the only exception of course spy planes.
What about airlift? Maybe only certain types of units like infantry…I for example just airlifted an Agent from New York to Frankfurt, this seems to me realistic…
The Turn:
This was a laborious NATO turn with its more than 60 cities and 400 units, more than 3 hours playing! But it was fun.
*Getting organized
*Victory Points:
-5 Pollution
+1 Cleaned Pollution
TOTAL: -4
Oh, and Eurisko please inform from now on about what happened with the Events at the beginning of each turn, gracias.
1) Of course.
2) I also think we should ban excursions into enemy territory with planes other than spy planes. Heavy bombers going from Moscow to Paris and back without causing an incident is not very realistic.
3) Airlifts are ok with me.
4) Ooops, sorry, will do. If I am not mistaken, this turn it was only an event in Zaire anyway.
Brazil (Captain America [wonder who he'll side with]) up.
Brazil January 1975
The Brazilian Government starts a moderate liberalization of the economy and the advancement of industrial centres to increase people's wealth and the nation's power. To save the country's borders light infantry units were send to the important checkpoints and highways.
The elite of our nation knows, that only cooperation with all nations can increase prosperity and save peace. We will only use forces in compliance with the conditions of the United Nations and the Law of Nations. We will grant the requests of the Security Council and our neighbours to prevent wars, stop riots, and establish humanity. In awareness, that Brazil is the leading power of south american states, but not of the world, we can only make effort in our continent, but can't on globe. Actions on other theatres will only be in symbolic nature and agree of the Security Council.
But because our Continent, and especially our own Nation is on the crossroad of history, we demand for aid, financial, military, technological, and political, to avoid terrorism and organized crime, to stop smuggling of arms and drug traffic.
(We seek well relations to all, especially to everyone who's interested influence south american future in a positive way. But we want to point out India's, China's, and Brazil's gain of strengh.)
Victory Points:
Nothing.
edit:
Brazil (Captain America [wonder who he'll side with
With the discovery of non-proliferation treaty, MRBMs will be obsoleted. ICBMs (to America and WARPAC) not, because it's obsetance is used for making it a special unit for them. But I support a -5 rule after that tech that must be made official everytime that unit is built.
I thought about this, and as you may remember, in the playtest of FS 1 ages ago, we made a house rule that NATO was allowed to bribe those cities in 1981. I want a smiliar rule here.
There are no restrictions to anything, but this seems only fair to me. It would also be a legitimate casus belli, if you would want to start ww3 over it (god forbid!).
Agreed.
Agreed.
India wishes to maintain it's non-aligned status and be on good terms with both the west and the east. We welcome with open arms investors of any ideology.
As far as China is concerned, we wish for good relations, and hope we can put the past behind us and look forwards toward a prosperous future. We will not though no accept any hostile moves against our mutual neighbours.
Other than that, we do have terrotorial claims towards Pakistan and Bangladesh and will not achnowledge their independence, as we see their territory as a part of the larger India as was under the British Empire. However, we will not engage in hostilities as long as there are not international acceptance for such actions.
1) Of benefit for the Panamanians? Laughable. What good is a US enclave, a military outpost built with the blood and tears of poor Panamanians to enrich big US corporations and fascist Panamanian elites on DC's payroll to the normal people? The canal must be nationalized and the School of the Americas, the USA's hub for training and equipping fascist militias to oppress the local population, must be closed. President Omar Torrijos will see to it, but we are sure that American big business, corporations such as MAIN, Bechtel and Halliburton, will soon enough pressure Washington into sending out their bloodhounds, the CIA, to get rid of Torrijos because he plans to create a new canal with the help of Japanese companies instead of US cronies.
Speaking of Japan and the far east, neither the US nor genocidal Japan have a right to be on Okinawa, which must be returned to its native owners. However, it is only fitting that the US would once again soak her hands in blood to protect her closest friends, a bunch of unrepentant war criminals, from a perceived threat. It is not the USSR that Japan must fear, but the rest of east Asia, for the soil from Malaya to Manchuria is soaked with the blood of the emperor's victims. No apology has been issued, and the victims at Nanking and countless other massacres still wait for an apology from their former executioners.
2) Why would the People's Republic be forced to respect a treaty which is a complete and utter farce? Imperial ambitions and brute strength are what got Britain the concession from China, when she was still ruled by fascist warlords who did not care about their people. The British started the war for Hong Kong over the refusal of the Chinese people to allow filthy British drugs to poison their families and communities. How anyone could consider any concessions made legitimate boggles the mind.
But now the British lion is weak. Having lost India and much power over the Commonwealth, Britain's tentacles no longer extend over the entire planet. Now is the time for our Chinese brothers to show the arrogant Europeans that you reap what you sow. Waiting for the treaty to legitimately expire would basically be green light for further imperialism, a message that strongarm tactics pay off. No longer must the British thorn in the dragon's side be tolerated.
3) Taiwan's people want to embrace their brothers as much as their socialist brothers want to embrace them, but the faux-democratic leaders of the island, descendants of the long line of feudal warlords and fascists of Kai-Shek's ilk, are refusing the reunification because they are on DC's payroll. The USSR completely backs Chinese reunification attempts, and Chinese goods will always be welcome in the USSR, even when the NATO makes a 180 degree turn in their attitude towards China, showing their true demon face when the brave Chinese people refuse to budge to their fascism.
4) The independence of Pakistan and Bangladesh was a farce, a painful stab in the back of all proud Indians sponsored by England, bitter about having lost her crown jewel, and the US, always willing to take advantage of disorder to divide nations and people. The primitive claim that religion provides a ground for separating people is easily refuted when one looks at the USSR's population, which is 20% muslim and marches in lockstep towards a socialist victory. India will not be denied her rightful lands, and the USSR will guarantee it. Should India find herself rejected by the NATO after sweet-talking India into submission to this most base fascism has failed, the USSR will keep her markets open for Indian trade.
5) It is better to inflate the supply of money than it is to inflate the number of mass graves and fascist death squads, my blinded friends. We only hope that Brazil will resist American imperial ambitions in South America.
The USSR is delighted to hear that Brazil will strive to empower its people and make them more prosperous, however, history shows that the hyenas of this world are always on the prowl, waiting for a good moment and a good excuse to attack their victim. We urge Brazil to be cautious of US attempts to re-establish imperial control over the colorful and exotic south American nation, especially now that the few rich families in control of everything will no longer play as big a role due to the spreading of wealth among the people. The US controls her minions with the help of corrupted leaders, nationalist leaders who consider their people first are dealt with by the CIA.
In the future, we will try to aid Brazil in her struggle to bring wealth to her people.
If by international acceptance you mean the green light by the imperalists in London and Washington, we are afraid that you will wait a long, long time. After all, why would they undo their Asian masterpiece? Too much was spent to divide India after she could no longer be kept, there is no reason for them to backpedal now.
As we already stated, the USSR will always be open to Indian trade, and we fully support Indian efforts to reunite her divided people. We are confident that, just as you did in 1949, you will once more hold your ground against imperialism and regain what is rightfully yours. Only this time, there is no Mahatma around, and the imperialism is even more fierce and insidious.
The turn:
Events in Angola and Zaire.
Nothing special.
The Dragon is still sleeping. There is unrest among the nations of the world but not too much. He can keep calm for now. He is glad. If he is woken, his wrath will be horrible. The red kraken is speaking and this, too, makes the dragon happy. There's a tiny brother of the dragon to the east who is annoying but also amusing him. And there's the Tiger to the Southwest who also began speaking to the dragon. They, too, will be good neighbours. But there are still the needles in the dragon's flesh. The dragon is patient, very patient but these needles must be removed in time or the dragon may awake with great wrath.
V f B e i n L e b e n l a n g
"Kein Mensch hat seinen Freunden so viel Gutes erwiesen und seinen Feinden so viel Böses angetan, dass ich, Sulla, ihn nicht noch übertroffen hätte."
Lucius Cornelius Sulla (138-78 v.Chr.) Dictator von Rom
"Sonst ein gar stiller Mann, doch wenn er angreift, wie der böse Teufel..."
über König Rudolf I. von Habsburg aus Grillparzer - König Ottokars Glück und Ende
Wow, that was fast, posting tomorrow
Good idea! Didn’t remember that anymore ...I thought about this, and as you may remember, in the playtest of FS 1 ages ago, we made a house rule that NATO was allowed to bribe those cities in 1981. I want a smiliar rule here.
NATO, March 1975
*NATO fleet watching movements of USSR’s fleet in the north Atlantic, Arctic and Pacific.
*Many freighters set sail towards their destinations all over the World.
*Reinforcing our Caribbean bases to crush the Pro-soviet Guerrillas menacing Colombia.
*WARPAC steals Istanbul’s resources! 3 squares that became temporarily free last turn have been taken by Bulgaria, the consequences: Istanbul will decrease in size next turn and will lose its just finished engineer! I’m really mad, how could you do this Brezhnev?Forces have been sent to retake my territories by force and as a reprimand the Bosporus have been closed!; we demand 1000 Dollars for reparations or the Bosporus will stay blocked, this seems to me fair since Istanbul was the victim and the Bosporus is controlled by this city.
To WARPAC: No time to discus the other irrelevant issues with you.
To Brazil: I can finance you to develop your country with many Dollars; in exchange I ask to put an embargo to the WARPAC, you don’t need to trade with them anyway, they closed the Baltic and Black Sea and I have better trading targets (highways will be completed very soon in my top cities).
-NATO POINTS: -3 (Pollution)
Btw, my Agent can’t investigate cities…
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