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Thema: Szenario Perserkriege (5 Jhd. v.Chr.)

  1. #16
    SNAFU Avatar von Tschuggi
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    keine Ahnung, vielleicht hab ich ja irgendwas falsch gemacht. Hab gestern deine Karte eingespeits, dann den aktuellen Patch nochmal runtergeladen und installiert/eingefügt und dann die aktuelle betaversion runtergeladen und installiert/eingefügt.
    Πάντα χωρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει

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    http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?t=73790

  2. #17
    PAE.Macht.Antike! Avatar von Pie
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    Den Schwierigkeitsgrad kannst du ganz leicht im Editor verändern. Mach Kaiser. Bin damit eigentlich ziemlich von der KI überrascht. Hatte letzte Woche wieder ein MP Spiel auf der kleinen Europakarte. Spielte Assur und hab doch glatt ins imaginäre hethitische Einflussgebiet ne Stadt gebaut. Großer Fehler. Hattu kam mit Axtkämpfer, die ich selbst noch nicht bauen konnte, und eroberte die Stadt in kürzester Zeit. Ägypten sah meine Schwächen und erklärte mir grundlos ebenfalls den Krieg und eroberte meine südlichste Stadt (Höhe Byblos). Nun hatte ich nur mehr 2 Städte übrig und wollte aber keinen Frieden schließen. Mein Versuch die Hauptstadt zu verteidigen schlug fehl, die Makedonier zogen ebenfalls in den Krieg und mit 3 Stacks von 3 verschiedenen Nationen wurde ich noch vor der Eisenzeit ausgerottet. Das hatte ich noch nie!
    Pie's Ancient Europe (PAE)
    Erlebe mit dieser CIV IV Mod(ifikation) hautnah das Zeitalter der Antike bis ins letzte Detail!
    Mit bahnbrechenden Erweiterungen und vielen ein- und erstmaligen Features.


    ... im Übrigen bin ich der Meinung, dass Karthago wieder aufgebaut werden muss!

  3. #18
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von JohnDay
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    Zitat Zitat von JohnStockton Beitrag anzeigen
    Pie hatte doch im neuen Patch meine ich allen KIs standardmäßig voreingestellt den Schwierigkeitsgrad Kaiser gegeben, im Szenario sind aber alle nur adelig. Weiß nicht inwiefern das sich vielleicht aufs Balancing auswirkt.
    Ebenfalls ein guter Einwand! Klasse und Danke John. Wird berichtigt.

    Zitat Zitat von Pie Beitrag anzeigen
    Den Schwierigkeitsgrad kannst du ganz leicht im Editor verändern. Mach Kaiser.
    Yeap, mach ich.


    Ich stelle gleich mal die neue Version aus, da sind dann alle diese und einige andere Sachen berichtigt. So erledigt, neue Version und neue Screenshots im ersten Post von diesem Threat.

    Grüße John
    Geändert von JohnDay (28. August 2013 um 01:27 Uhr)

  4. #19
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von JohnDay
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    Zitat Zitat von Tschuggi Beitrag anzeigen
    keine Ahnung, vielleicht hab ich ja irgendwas falsch gemacht. Hab gestern deine Karte eingespeits, dann den aktuellen Patch nochmal runtergeladen und installiert/eingefügt und dann die aktuelle betaversion runtergeladen und installiert/eingefügt.
    Da du dich damit deutlich besser auskennst, als jemand der noch nie Civilization gespielt hat, macht mir das trotzdem Sorgen.

    Versuche doch bitte die neue Version PAE480bcV2 noch einmal und sonst melde dich bitte noch mal.

    Grüße John
    Geändert von JohnDay (28. August 2013 um 02:47 Uhr)

  5. #20
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    It seems a good scenario. But I think it's impossible to attack Greek cities with Persia in the beginning without siege or ranged units. Rapidly Greek cities hire mercenaries and Persian units are easily defeated. And besides the cost of maintain that units due they are outside of Persia. Even it seems Persia is not a threat for Greece although they are at war. Persia will be self-evident.
    Is perhaps deliberate?

  6. #21
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von JohnDay
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    Hi Rual.

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    It seems a good scenario.
    Let me say, thank you.

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    But I think it's impossible to attack Greek cities with Persia in the beginning without siege or ranged units.
    Yes, that´s true Rual but please think about it for a while.

    If I made Persia to powerfull in the beginning, what will heappens? Ok Persia invades Greek. Delphi and Athen ist fast captured by Persia and maybee also Sparta. Remember this is a very smal map. It is not possible to lose one ore two city´s and to recapture it after, because if you lose to much citys, you don´t have a chance to get enough manpower to do it. So what? What next? Persia rules Greek. Maybee this is the end of the scenario? Only ten maybee fifteen turns? I think fifteen turns are not enough. What do you think about it?

    I like to play games with a building phase first, to make my plan for my civilisation. A build up play is some kind of a
    game of strategy for me and more than a single situation you have to handle with and the game is over. Sure there have to be something on the table at the beginning, if not it´s maybee boring. But if I made one side to powerful in the beginnig, it will be a very short game. That´s not what I want.

    But if you like to work with me on this? Made a sugestion if you have any wishes. Let me know, and hear it.

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    Rapidly Greek cities hire mercenaries and Persian units are easily defeated.
    And there is a chance of a build up phase for both after. Sure Persia will come back with stronger units and more manpower after some turns.

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    And besides the cost of maintain that units due they are outside of Persia.
    That´s a big point and it´s true, but it´s part of the mod PAE. Normaly you don´t have a chance to grow up to early to fast, because you don´t have the money to do it. But what shall I do? Made a Persia with only up to five city´s? That´s maybee not the powerful Persia from history if I do so. That´s why I cheat a little. A Mint-press in Persepolis and some Market Place for all civilisations in some city´s, even if they don´t know the technology of that at the start of PAE480bc. But it´s not enough for Persia, I know. That´s why Persia get´s three Merchants at there borders at the beginning also. In german I wrote to this point: "Ich hoffe, dass ein Spieler das als Herausforderung sieht." In english: I hope a player try this as a challenge .

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    Even it seems Persia is not a threat for Greece although they are at war. Persia will be self-evident. Is perhaps deliberate?
    That´s a little bit harsh, I think. But if you have any sugestions, ore solutions please tell me and let us discuss this.

    Greetings John

    P.S. Excuse my horrible english please. I hope you understand what I was trying to say.

  7. #22
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    My english is not good too

    The big problem for Persia is it has no province and it has a lot of cities, and they have a very high upkeep. 148 in Emperor level. At 100% of gold rate it's still losing
    I have seen there is no province in map, but Persia needs at least three provinces and a province palace to reduce upkeep. Other way is adopt Diarchy and/or Colonization civics. But bring two turns of anarchy and it's still losing gold at 50%. It's a matter of time that Persia runs out of

    It's not for a powerful Persia (I think Greece is more powerful than Persia at the beginning), it's for a Persia more playable. I can't train units (and I can't hire units) because I need to grow cities and build economics buildings. And some ones grows slowly. I think that core cities of Persia should be a bit more developed.
    If I don't want to try suicide attacks, the battle of Thermopylae never will happen. I think it's better to come back that units and try to conquest Asia Minor cities. It's an easier objective. The problem of this is Greece will attack Macedonia and possibly I'll lose that vassal.

    I think Persia is more difficult to play than Rome or Babylon.

    I can work with you if you want. There are some minor observations, but I think the scenario is not finished, isn't it?. By the way, Gadir/Gades never was a Iberian city. It was founded by Phoenicians, it later was a Punic colony and it time after was conquered by Romans. Callaeci didn't exist, it was Gallaeci.

  8. #23
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von JohnDay
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    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    My english is not good too
    Let´s try it . And you are extremly welcome Rual!

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    The big problem for Persia is it has no province and it has a lot of cities, and they have a very high upkeep. 148 in Emperor level. At 100% of gold rate it's still losing
    I have seen there is no province in map, but Persia needs at least three provinces and a province palace to reduce upkeep. Other way is adopt Diarchy and/or Colonization civics. But bring two turns of anarchy and it's still losing gold at 50%. It's a matter of time that Persia runs out of
    Yes it´s true, there is no province at the start of PAE480bc. I did this to have more time for a build it up phase but there is no problem to change this. Let us try to give them three provinces and a province palace to reduce the upkeep of persia like you told me to ok? Do you have any special persian city´s in mind?

    Should I give Susa a province palace and a provice for example?
    Ninive a province?
    And maybee Sardis a province?

    If you like to choose any other city, please tell me.

    I remember one special point at this. Piracy, if you give a province to a city who can build ships at the beginning, it will be possible to get too fast, too many Pirates in the game. I try to access barred if those city´s don´t start as a province. Please let us keep this in mind.

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    It's not for a powerful Persia (I think Greece is more powerful than Persia at the beginning), it's for a Persia more playable. I can't train units (and I can't hire units) because I need to grow cities and build economics buildings. And some ones grows slowly. I think that core cities of Persia should be a bit more developed.
    I did this to have more time in a build it up phase, but of course we can change it. If you find a reason to produce an argument, we should talk about it.

    What do you think of to re-open the scenario, put in all your wishes and changes and save it as a PAE480V3? I like to have a testplay after and we talk about it later? If you don´t want it, I will do that. Tell me what do you prefer.

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    If I don't want to try suicide attacks, the battle of Thermopylae never will happen.
    That´s absolutely true, but the trap of Leonidas was to choose the battlefield and Xerxes told his troops to attack at any risk. That´s why I think it was an suicide attack of many persian troops at the Thermopylae in history. Remember the battle lasts for three days.

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    I think it's better to come back that units and try to conquest Asia Minor cities. It's an easier objective. The problem of this is Greece will attack Macedonia and possibly I'll lose that vassal.
    That´s great I think. I smile a little bit, because you have to choose between. It´s not easy and no one way ticket. You have to think about it, what will you do with your troops as a human player. I love it. Please let us search for situations like this in a new version ok?

    And also, think about it for a while, what if the Ai (is this the right word?) is playing the perisan. In history there was a persian attack who killed Leonidas. If I start the game right now and play as Greece maybee, Persia attacks me. If I play as Gallia, Persia attacks Greece and Leonidas died, like it should be. If we change something, remember the goal. Persia should attack Greece and Leonidas have to die, ok?

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    I think Persia is more difficult to play than Rome or Babylon.
    Yes maybee, and at the moment. I think we will change this now .

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    I can work with you if you want.
    Yes, please do it .

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    There are some minor observations, but I think the scenario is not finished, isn't it?
    No, it is not .

    Zitat Zitat von Rual Beitrag anzeigen
    By the way, Gadir/Gades never was a Iberian city. It was founded by Phoenicians, it later was a Punic colony and it time after was conquered by Romans. Callaeci didn't exist, it was Gallaeci.
    Great, I named it like I did, because I don´t know it better. Let us change this name.


    And please let us discuss the situation of Ragusa (makedonien city). It need´s badly more food to grow up, but how to do that? There is not enough place to put in a new ressource for example. Maybee if we put a ressource "in" the city of Ragusa? Maybee you have any suggestions?

    Greetings John

  9. #24
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    I have changed scenario with my suggestions. And I have added txt_key for cities and some leaders.

    I have seen that settlements status wasn't in the most cities. Status now are accumulative. I have added settlements buildings too. In Ragusa, I've changed clam bonus recourse by fish for more food. I've added some camps and pasture too.

    Well, perhaps it's better you see it if you like it..
    Angehängte Dateien Angehängte Dateien

  10. #25
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von JohnDay
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    Great!

    I like to have a look at it tonight. Maybee I need two, maybee three day´s to answer.

    Greetings John

  11. #26
    PAE.Macht.Antike! Avatar von Pie
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    Hi, kleiner administrativer Hinweis von mir: bitte nutzt jene Farben für die CIVs im Szenario. Falls im Szenario komplett andere CIVs vorkommen, dann habt ihr natürlich die Wahl aller übrigen Farben.
    Pie's Ancient Europe (PAE)
    Erlebe mit dieser CIV IV Mod(ifikation) hautnah das Zeitalter der Antike bis ins letzte Detail!
    Mit bahnbrechenden Erweiterungen und vielen ein- und erstmaligen Features.


    ... im Übrigen bin ich der Meinung, dass Karthago wieder aufgebaut werden muss!

  12. #27
    SNAFU Avatar von Tschuggi
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    Moin,

    hab nach unserem Umzug mal in der neuen Heimat endlich mal dein Szenario nochmal kurz anspielen wollen, und es geht leider gar nix... weder unter custom scenario noch unter play scenario... egal, welche civ ich auswähle, es endet immer damit, dass das Szenario zwar lädt, aber dann der Text "you have been defeated" kommt, noch bevor ich irgendeine unit bzw. Karte sehen konnte. An was kann das liegen? Dummheit... ich scheine ja der einzige zu sein, und das, obwohl ich alles neu installiert habe... wobei: ich kann auch nicht alle Karten in einem normalen Spiel spielen...

    Greez,

    Tschuggi
    Πάντα χωρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει

    www.masterofmana.com

    http://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?t=73790

  13. #28
    PAE.Macht.Antike! Avatar von Pie
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    Warte auf Patch 8 dafür. Ich glaub mittlerweile, bei Patch 7 fehlen einige Dateien, wobei ich mir nicht vorstellen kann welche, aber scheinbar haben einige ein Problem, wenn sie neu installieren und nicht von Patch 6 auf Patch 7 gepatcht haben. Vielleicht Videodateien? Aber warum da deswegen "Defeated" stehen soll....
    Pie's Ancient Europe (PAE)
    Erlebe mit dieser CIV IV Mod(ifikation) hautnah das Zeitalter der Antike bis ins letzte Detail!
    Mit bahnbrechenden Erweiterungen und vielen ein- und erstmaligen Features.


    ... im Übrigen bin ich der Meinung, dass Karthago wieder aufgebaut werden muss!

  14. #29
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von JohnDay
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    Zitat Zitat von Pie Beitrag anzeigen
    Hi, kleiner administrativer Hinweis von mir: bitte nutzt jene Farben für die CIVs im Szenario. Falls im Szenario komplett andere CIVs vorkommen, dann habt ihr natürlich die Wahl aller übrigen Farben.
    OK!

    Zitat Zitat von Pie Beitrag anzeigen
    Warte auf Patch 8 dafür. Ich glaub mittlerweile, bei Patch 7 fehlen einige Dateien, wobei ich mir nicht vorstellen kann welche, aber scheinbar haben einige ein Problem, wenn sie neu installieren und nicht von Patch 6 auf Patch 7 gepatcht haben. Vielleicht Videodateien? Aber warum da deswegen "Defeated" stehen soll....
    Das verstehe ich bisher halt auch nicht mit Tschuggi, aber wenn das eine mögliche Lösung ist, dann gerne! Patch 7 ist auf meinem XP Rechner im Moment (nach Neuinstallation) jedenfalls nicht sehr stabil, leider.

    Dabei habe ich auch noch ein Verständnisproblem Pie. Warum startet das Scenario eigentlich immer in Runde 109? Ich kann da einstellen was ich will in der Scenario Datei, das wird ignoriert und bei jedem Start beginnt das Spiel dann doch wieder in Runde 109?

    Grüße John

  15. #30
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von JohnDay
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    Hi Rual,

    thank you for your work, real names and ideas! That´s what it need to do a good scenario. Great .

    And I hope you are not worry about it, but sure I changed a little bit and first a question.

    Maybee something went wrong with two city names:

    TXT_KEY_CITY_CARTENNA
    and
    XT_KEY_CITY_NAME_B103

    Shall I rename it by myself? I don´t know how it works and what NAME_B103 means?

    Second, if you put a ram in the Xerxes Stack, the hole stack won´t attack Leonidas after. It´s in the game meachanics I think? I don´t know, but the ram is the first unit who turn back to homeland and all other will do the same after. You can´t give them a ram if the goal is that Leonidas have to die in the first turn (if you dont play the persian as human player by yourself). I know, you don´t like a suicide attack, but it was a suicide attack in history I think.
    If Xerxes had some trebuchet with him, be sure Leonidas won´t stand the hole Persian army for three days like in real history. In history the Persians say they will use so many bow´s and arrows that the day will turn into darkness if they use them, and the Spartians laughing about it, and saying: So we will fight in the shadow.
    You see, there was no ram and no trebuchet, the fight at the Thermopylen was more a fight man against man.
    But if I put some bowman in the Xerxes Stack, it´s the same like with the ram. They turn back to homeland and that´s why I can´t give it to them.

    Another way to stop this is to give every persian city up to four units. If I do so, the ram and bowman will stay and Xerxes attack´s, Leonidas dies and I am happy, but if I realy do so, there won´t be a build up phase in the game anymore. Because, if I do it for the persians, I have to do it for all and the scenario is a hole battle everywhere right from the start. That´s to much, that´s realy to much sorry and no way. That´s not what I want be sure and yes, I tryed it out.

    So I took the rams out, soory. After this, Xerxes troops attack and kill Leonidas, like it should be again.

    Third ... if you change Iberia to a civilisation with five city´s? Tell me what do to next with Iberia? If you do so, Iberia is mighty and dangerous right from the start. That´s realy to much, so I changed two city´s back to the Barbarians. There should be a to overcome difficulties for every civilisation, also for the Iberians. To rule Hispania should be a problem for the Iberians, not a gift free from the start.
    Also ... you have to remanage the resources after those changes. Every civilisation need some resources, and some it may conquer. If you change city´s you have to have a spezial look at the resource mannagement of those civilisations.
    It will work right know again, because I changed a lot of resources for Iberia. Iberia is able to build a broze foundry again for example.

    By the way, I changed a lot more resources of the hole map. Because Carthago owns a Kolonie in Hispalis now (Gadir) and they need to change some resources too, after this. If I do it for the Iberian, and Carthago, I do it for all a little. I hope it´s better know.

    Other changes:

    I changed zoroastrianism and sumerian gods as religion for Persia and Babylon, because I read a little bit more about it. This this now the right way of every civilisation like it shut be in real.

    Macedonia need Megalithic tombs and no Tumulus, sorry. It´s changed ...

    I put in a Viking ship with four berseks as a surprise for Iberia .

    Changed some more city of persia to fertility cult and Sardis to a cult of Cybele.

    Put in the dionysus cult in greek and macedonia, but not in every city.

    Changed the cult of Cybele cult center to Ephesos.

    Changed the cult of dionysus cult center to Athen.

    Changed Byzantion to a culture of one and edit three Slaves and a treasure unit to them. (Like a city persia conquerd just before.)

    And I put in a new greek city called Tyras, because I read a lot of the situation of that time and the greek colonies around the Black Sea are very important. I hope it will be fun to play them .

    But it is realy late and I want to go to sleep. I hope you can life with my changes Rual, I tryed to explain it why I did so. I like to test a little bit more, maybee tomorow I like to post it. Maybee you have a look at it again after Rual? This would be very nice if you do so ...

    Greetings John

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