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Thema: A Soaring Spirit PBEM

  1. #16
    Evertonian Avatar von McMonkey
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    Problem fixed. v1.2 now available at the Scenario League.

  2. #17
    the elf Avatar von Gelion
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    Zitat Zitat von McMonkey Beitrag anzeigen
    @Gelion
    We should wait until we have got all the players we need before starting. Feel free to have a play around with the game to familiarize yourself while you wait. We also need to discuss and agree on any house rules needed.
    I had a few questions regarding house rules.

    Cities can only be founded on Colony Sites by Colonists - What is the logic behind that law? Historic accuracy? I noticed a few nice city spots in Epyrus for example. Why do we have to stick to pre-defined sites?

    Use the 'Colony Sites List' in the Read me folder to name cities - again, is this for historical accuracy? I mean, most of colonies might be founded by the wrong metropolies, in that case the names should change all the same. I would be against this rule and simply make a rule that all colony names should be authentic. When in doubt we could look at that list.

    New cities gained from goody huts must be disbanded asap - again, this changes if the first two rules are revised.

    I am a NES junkie (the forum game, not the console), so I would not mind some extra-engine flexibility. What about Olympic games and all-Greek assembly? We could implement some sort of role-playing there, pacts, agreements etc.

  3. #18
    Evertonian Avatar von McMonkey
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    Zitat Zitat von Gelion Beitrag anzeigen
    Cities can only be founded on Colony Sites by Colonists - What is the logic behind that law? Historic accuracy? I noticed a few nice city spots in Epyrus for example. Why do we have to stick to pre-defined sites?
    In the last PBEM of Hellas one of the players built loads of cities on one and two square islands which was probably good for his strategy but did not seem very realistic. I want the whole map to come into play, not just small areas. It would be easy to plonk all of your cities in one particular region. I wanted the colony sites to force the nations to spread out in search for good locations and also to cause some tension between the rival colonists.

    You will have to assume that the colony sites are the only locations that are suitable for habitation. If there were more terrain spaces available I might have made other areas inhospitable but as I could simulate this by using one slot, the Colony site, I decided there was no point. The Colony site / Colonist is central to my vision for this game. I will not change it!

    Zitat Zitat von Gelion Beitrag anzeigen
    Use the 'Colony Sites List' in the Read me folder to name cities - again, is this for historical accuracy? I mean, most of colonies might be founded by the wrong metropolies, in that case the names should change all the same. I would be against this rule and simply make a rule that all colony names should be authentic. When in doubt we could look at that list.
    Who's to say people will pick authentic names and not Wolfsburgfcopolis? I did a LOT of research to try and make this scenario as accurate as I could and the city names are part of that. It does not really matter which nation founds the city, the names must be done by the book, I'm a bit anal that way Also this will allow players to check historical atlases to keep up with events and will make negotiations much easier.

    Zitat Zitat von Gelion Beitrag anzeigen
    New cities gained from goody huts must be disbanded asap - again, this changes if the first two rules are revised.
    The number of cities discovered by goody huts is small so this should not be a major problem. Later in the game the cities may even have some improvements to sell off which would be a nice bonus. This rule stands too! Sorry if I'm not being very flexible here but these things were core to my concept from day one and I am not prepared to change them

    Zitat Zitat von Gelion Beitrag anzeigen
    I am a NES junkie (the forum game, not the console), so I would not mind some extra-engine flexibility. What about Olympic games and all-Greek assembly? We could implement some sort of role-playing there, pacts, agreements etc.
    Sounds interesting. Could you elaborate on this? There is a fair bit of alliance making and planning that goes on via PM already.

  4. #19
    the elf Avatar von Gelion
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    All clear on the first three questions. If the game is to function "authentically" we should stick to those rules. Agree there

    Zitat Zitat von McMonkey Beitrag anzeigen
    Sounds interesting. Could you elaborate on this? There is a fair bit of alliance making and planning that goes on via PM already.
    Stupid Opera erased my long response. To cut the long story short.

    Greeks in Hellas almost never occupied their opponents towns to "expand". They came, fought, and pillaged if won. Sparta is the only notable exception. Most wars ended in tributes. Thus we could have a rule that during fighting in Hellas, the defated nation (that lost all defenders in core province) has to pay reparations.

    Secondly we could re-introduce the proxy wars from "First Strike". In case of say, Spartans sacking an Athenian colony in Italy, Athenians could declare that Athens and all their allies in Italy would expell Spartans and their allies from Italy. This would lead to a war limited by Italian borders and 3 squares of water from the shore. Wars that would involve whole "alliances" would need much greater reasons to start (i.e. 30 years war IRL).

    Thirdly, I had an idea of roleplaying parts of civilizaitons that were clearly independent, i.e Argolida trading with Kerkyra, but not with Corinth. However it is impossible to implement.

    Lastly, we could have a Delian league that acts as a UN and Internaional Court. Size of civilization would determine the number of votes (or to be decided later) and descisions must be respected under fear of retribution....

    Those are my 4 cents....

  5. #20
    Evertonian Avatar von McMonkey
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    I do like some of those ideas and I would consider incorporating them into future versions of this scenario. I propose we play the game as it is this time around, just to see how well it works in its most basic form and what needs improving. The house rules currently in place for this scenario are not complex as there is no interpretation involved. I would like to look at some of these ideas more closely to see how we could include them without making the game too complex.

    As you can see from 'Rise of the Dictators' the more complex the house rules are the more confusion there is. I really enjoyed playing 'First Strike' but I did find the rules hard to get to grips with sometimes, especially the Proxy Wars. The Papal system in 'Medium Aevum' was another innovative idea which proved difficult to implement.

    One thing I notice tends to happen in PBEM games is that once a war has begun it tends to become a battle of annihilation. I guess this is because neither side has anything to lose in the real world, its not even like we are playing for money! In reality most wars have had more limited objectives and once they have been met the peace negotiations begin.

    I think we should discuss these ideas further, but continue with the game as it is for now.

  6. #21
    Das Spice muss fließen!!! Avatar von Barthi
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    please more differences between the Nations

    Spartan good ground troops
    Athenian good navy
    Corinthian good in trade
    .......
    Fragen/Download = PN an mich:

    Civ 2 unter Vista/Win 7 Spielen

    Meine Civ2 Szen's:

    Star Trek Galaxy, Sezessionskrieg, Star Wars: Rise and Fall*

    Meine Mods:

    HoI2DD, EU3, Empire at War FoC#, North & South Pirates, Port Royale 2,

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    *in Arbeit, # auf Eis gelegt

  7. #22
    Evertonian Avatar von McMonkey
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    Good point Barthi. That's something I didn't do. I guess it will depend on who builds the wonders such as the Lighthouse and Sun Tzu's in this scenario. If I decide to make an upgraded version in the future I will look through this thread and try and add this idea. I think for now we are best off playing the game as it is and seeing how things work out.

  8. #23
    Handeln & Verhandeln Avatar von Civilionaut
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    McMonkey:

    please check events and rules,
    message is comming, but no strategos will be build ( phoenicians, other nations? )

    edit:
    please change text
    A new Strategos has risen to lead the phoenician people to victory.
    Geändert von Civilionaut (05. September 2009 um 19:59 Uhr)

  9. #24
    Evertonian Avatar von McMonkey
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    Good point Civi. I can't be bothered uploading all the scenario files again just now. I will incorporate this into any further updates (IE v1.3) but for now could everyone please just replace the event file itself.

  10. #25
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Alcibaides
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    Zitat Zitat von McMonkey Beitrag anzeigen
    One thing I notice tends to happen in PBEM games is that once a war has begun it tends to become a battle of annihilation. I guess this is because neither side has anything to lose in the real world, its not even like we are playing for money! In reality most wars have had more limited objectives and once they have been met the peace negotiations begin.

    I think we should discuss these ideas further, but continue with the game as it is for now.
    Yes, with the exception of the hundred years war, wars in human history tend to last no more than 30 years. I think a society is likely to be both physically and emotionally exhausted from a constant 30 year war. That is almost an entire generation knowing nothing but war. Even the victor needs a break to allow time to rebuild and for soldiers to come home and make babies, etc.

    If you look at the Punic Wars, each one lasted about 15 years with a generation or 2 of peace inbetween.

    You could implement a system whereby each war may only last a maximum of 30 years with a subsequent 30 year peace.

  11. #26
    Evertonian Avatar von McMonkey
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    Historically this makes a lot of sense, but how would it work out in game terms?

    I can see how players could exploit such a rule for their own advantage in a negative way. This has as much potential to ruin a good game as it has to improve it.

    The "problem" (not really a problem as such) we seem to have in PBEM games is that a war might start over a specific issue, but once one side has the upper hand it makes sense to press the advantage. When you have the other guy on the ropes why not knock him out?

    I have always enjoyed the board game 'Risk'. When you get into a position where you are are about to knock out an opponent you can usually guarantee the other players will join forces against you until someone else becomes the dominant force and then it changes again so the game ebbs and flows and winning is never a foregone conclusion. I know this does sometimes happen in PBEM games but it would be good to see more of it. I guess though that when you have made an alliances it would be unwise to break them too easily as nobody will trust you in the future. What we really need is a way to erase our memories of previous games every time we start a new one.

    I did like the idea of Proxy Wars in First Strike. NATO and the Warsaw Pact could go to war over a territory without it becoming WWIII. It would be good to find a similar system for Ancient or Medieval scenarios where there was a clear war aim, say control of a certain city, and a war could be fought just over that issue and when one side won the war was over. Not sure how you would make this happen without getting into the same kinds of complications we are having in 'Rise of the Dictators' but it is definitely worth some thought!

    Also, I can't find the thread right now but Techumesh at Apolyton had some interesting ideas about supplies (fuel, ammo etc...) for his WWII Burma scenario. I guess you could try and implement some kind of equivalent Ancient Version?

    Anyhow, we are still looking for an Ionian leader so we can get this show on the road!

  12. #27
    Handeln & Verhandeln Avatar von Civilionaut
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    McMonkey:

    2 wrong locations

    @IF
    RANDOMTURN
    DENOMINATOR=8
    @THEN
    CREATEUNIT
    unit=Celtic Warrior
    owner=Lydians
    veteran=yes
    homecity=NONE
    locations
    60,1
    86,1

    84,16
    endlocations
    @ENDIF

  13. #28
    Registrierter Benutzer Avatar von Jerec
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    Ionans.
    "Cease firing, but if any enemy planes appear, shoot them down in a friendly fashion." -Admiral William Halsey

  14. #29
    Evertonian Avatar von McMonkey
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    Well spotted Civi! I will amend this too and upload an updated version to the SL. We should all download this new v1.3 before we start playing! I will post here once I have uploaded it. Sorry for the multiple versions

    Welcome aboard Jerec. As soon as I have uploaded the v1.3 files Athens can start things off!

  15. #30
    Evertonian Avatar von McMonkey
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    Here are the updated files you will need. Please just copy/paste into the scenario folder. Gelion to start. Best of luck

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