90 - Kemet, das Land der ersten Hochkultur

[Ginger]

For KGs either a nerf or a ban are fine by me, the only thing I don't want is unnerfed BtS versions
Yup all the rest look fine to me.

[xist10]

We play as Ramses (Spi/Ind).
Warrior on the Hill ?
The Archer must follow the settler.


Wir spielen als Ramses(Spi/Ind).
Ich würde den Krieger erstmal auf den Hügel ziehen.

The Mapcreator has forbidden the two water wonders (Great Lighthouse and Coloss).
GLT und Der Koloss sind von Kartenbauer verboten worden.

[Ginger]

Some first thoughts

WTF is the point of playing coastal IND if we can't build the Lighthouse or Colossus

Interesting that they would ban colossus, assuming they know what they're doing, that means Astro might be a low-value pick up. I always believed Colossus was balanced by a very early obsoletion on the maps it's best. Well those are two of the best wonders in the toilet. Maybe we find stone, until then I won't speak the name of the triangles, so as not to lead us unto temptation. It's a big game so I think we would be okay with taking some risks. Ramsses of Egypt, I think we should bulb Theology with the help of our obelisks, secures us a native religion and we build the AP. Oracle on these big games is really tricky, you know some guy is going to go all in and get it turn 52

Wow look, double 6 yield food and a luxury, it's a Realm's Beyond start!

Mining -> Bronze -> Hunting -> Animal Husbandry? This many forests we go double workers and chop chop chop.

I think realistically we settle 1 south (saves a forest brings us closer to possible fish on the coast (we can see the river delta in the fog), so I think we should move the warrior north to check if we're losing any good tiles up north by moving the settler south.

[xist10]

I would settle on 8 (1 north). Yes, 2 gets a possible seafood on 2-2-3 or 2-2-1, but I fear, that we have seafood, we can only exploit with a city on 2-2.
But first the warrior, or ?

[xist10]

New Information:
We are allowed to scout with the archer in the first round.
So Archer 2, warrior 9 ?
Archer 3 is maybe a bit better, if whe want to scout land

[Rob Anybody]

The Archer must follow the settler.

Korrektur:

Der Start-Bogen darf in den ersten Runden normal zum Erkunden benutzt werden. Nach der Gründung der HS muss er aber bis zur Runde 100 in der HS bleiben.

[Ginger]

I would settle on 8 (1 north). Yes, 2 gets a possible seafood on 2-2-3 or 2-2-1, but I fear, that we have seafood, we can only exploit with a city on 2-2.
But first the warrior, or ?

I moved the warrior and archer to scout. And I can't figure out how to post attachments so you might want to log in to see the map.
It looks like we might be the victims of a bad joke. It appears that we are on a 20-tile island. Some coastline is visible in the bottom left-hand side. I'll be completely honest: I am totally fine playing naval/archipelago games, but I have no interest in playing a gimmick map like everyone starting on a 4x4 square of land isolated, balanced or not. Maybe we're on a peninsula and I am worrying for naught. But I'll let my blood pressure cool down, give it the benefit of the doubt, and we'll learn more in the coming turns as we scout. I just wanted to make my reservations clear from the beginning.

(also we can see some coast in the bottom left corner of our discovered map)

I think we should still think we should settle 1S for faster worker and to leave room for a city up north, it might be ideal to maximize space for more city on a small island if we weakened the capital and left more room by stepping 1 (you use the numbers on the key bad of a computer to signify direction, right?), but I don't think that's a good gamble to make.
However if you strongly believe in moving a different direction than 2, settle as you wish.

IND is not a terrible trait for these Astro-beeline maps, Literature can secure you the scientists you need to bulb through Machinery/Optics/Astro.

[xist10]

First of all:
If you want to attach an picture:

Achtung Spoiler:

YOu have to open the expanded(?) section of the post.



You can upload pictures with this.



You can select the picture from your pc. You have to select it first and then upload.



With att2, you can show a picture in the post.

Why did you move the warrior 8, not 9 ?

I think, we should settle this round. So 5, 2 or 8. We lost a possible seafood in both cases, so i would prefere 2, because a second city on the same row not on GL. And we have fresh water.
Wenn wir in diese Runde siedeln wollen (meine Vorliebe), stehen 2, 5 oder 8 zur Verfügung.
Wir laufen in allen Fällen Gefahr, Meeresressourcen nicht belegen zu können. Deshalb gefällt mir 2 besser.
EIne zweite Stadt in der Reihe ist nicht auf Grünland und wir hätten auf 2 Zugriff auf Frischwasser.

[Ginger]

Okay thank you for the rundown of how to attach, I moved warrior 8 because I wasn't sure if 9 would have vision of the coast tile currently to warrior's 7.

I guess we're both in agreement about settling 2 then, I'll log in and pull the trigger, and post what is revealed

[Ginger]

Water map, I envy the FIN's, PHI's and ORG's.
I think Mining - BW to unlock the second wheat is good? Worker will spend a few turns roading after improving wheat. Agr-Wheel is very nice for this start, only China would've been better.
The starting island only has room for 2 cities, so its clear that Sailing is a priority ASAP, possibly before Pottery, though maybe unlocking cottages for the worker to start working will be important (lots of forests to pre chop).

I think if our natural expansion prospects are going to be constrained, we should possibly consider a run at religion/Oracle. My reasoning is that the value of that wonder is usually tech constrained, and with slower city plants, we'll have more tech to afford the religious line. Religion is powerful in a big game like this, especially as Egypt with guaranteed prophets, and Metal Casting gives us cheap forges and supremacy on the seas* for a long time.

Warrior move 9 next turn?
I'm going to make a sandbox in a couple turns after we've uncovered the whole island. The map size is Huge right?

*need to check the rules on blockades to see if triremes are actually that useful.

[xist10]

I doesnt recall rules about blockades, so we should have the classic BtS rules.

Yes, BW for the woods is good. But want do we want to do with the wood ? Prebuild settlers ?
I think, Fishing first could be an option.
But yes, BW-Sailing ?
If we want to use the wood for an wunder, i think the pyramids are stronger. We can use SPI to switch between Rep/und Policestaat for Research/Troopbuild. And the oracle is something we have a huge research disadvange and it is cheap.
If we want a bit risiko: BW-Stoneworking (Pyramids)-Expansion. This is something, KSL executed in the PB88. He didn't score well, but I think, a huge factor was that they upgraded greenland on the worldmap und used the new, good land as my starting point, not as expansion room for the KSL on Great Britain.

[Ginger]

I don't think we physically have the hammers to build Pyramids. We could save 7 forests for math and mine the furs but it still won't be enough to make it in a reasonable time, even with whip overflow. I would classify Pyramids as an economic recovery wonder, able to turn great expansion and base hammer and food into tech (and later units). If we are stuck on two cities we won't exactly be needing an economic recovery, as all expansion is going to be heavily gated anyways.

Yes we don't have as much of a comparative advantage in building the Oracle as we would over another civ trying to build the pyramids, but I don't think we're behind in tech. Maybe to get religion, but not Priesthood too, the Mysticism civs will nuke their own games if they want to ignore agriculture/wheel. Maybe Inca or Celts/HRE can beat us if they got deer instead of wheat like us.

How early does Oracle/Pyramids usually go in the games on this forum? (though this isn't an ordinary map setup)

Next turn we should know everything possible (or relevant) about our island, and can set up a sandbox. Then the first 40 turns can be arranged like clockwork, and we can test out what the timing for possible wonder or settler rushes end up being. In particular I'm not sure what relation to get Hunting/Pottery vs Fishing/Sailing for the extra commerce. With a opening simulation it should be possible to get a good development and oracle time. We'll see what our second city site (which necessarily must be up north) looks like next turn.

Edit: now that I think of it, the best possible way to build pyramids would be to run a Forge Engineer after Oracle.

[xist10]

Yes we only get 7x30 from the woods, for the 500 is this not enough.
KSL did build the pyramids in R52.
In the PB89 stand the pyramids on R111. The oracle in R99.
In PB91 build JP the Oracle in R92 und the pyramids in the same city in R118.
But both games hat only ten players and (especially PB91) enough arguments to build 5 Settlers than a pyramid.

[xist10]

Sailing has a high Priority.
And we had the right choice with the city. We can exploit the northern fish from our Island.
The Ice is interesting, because I think, this is not natural ice and should block the coast for the ships.

[Ginger]

I noticed the map size in the settings is listed as small? Is this normally the case? How many tiles are on this map, do we know? afterall a small map size with 18 players could be very, very cramped.
Yes the ice blocking coastal routes makes me less interested in Oracling Metal Casting, maybe it's best to just do pure expansion technologies. To be fair, it wouldn't be the worst idea to still go religion and culture-bomb the first settlement to grab the fish, but I have a sneaking suspicion that that would screw our game if we missed the deadline on getting Meditation/Poly. Better to just open Fish-Sailing after Bronze, and probably Pottery followed by Hunt-AH. I'm going to make a sim to try out different tech paths.