PB 88 - 73er reloaded

[wahl-profi]

Ein Stimmungsbild mit JP, Sven und RB :
(fett markiert: aktueller Favorit; (in Klammern): leichte Präferenz)


SG:
- Gottheit: Kendogan, Fimi, Empirate, Suite, Rob Anybody, Flunky, CocoRico, (Piccadilly), KSL, SVE!V, (JP)
- Unsterblicher: Empirate, (KSL)
- Kaiser: (KSL), Meiz, superjm, Donovan Zoi
- egal: Apenimon, (Piccadilly), (JP)
- Nicht Gottheit (was genau?): klops, superdeath (normal König)


Einheitenübergabe (bei entsprechenden Techs):
- ja: Kendogan, Empirate, Suite, Flunky
- nein: Fimi, superdeath, SVE!V, Meiz, superjm, Donovan Zoi
- egal: CocoRico, Piccadilly
- anderes:

- Apenimon: ja, aber nicht "wenn es den Bach runtergeht" oder aus
- Rob Anybody: Ausführung durch Schiri nach Anweisungen? Verschenkte Einheiten werden mit besonderer Beförderung markiert?
- JP: Bedenken von superdeath teile ich, insbes. bei GP

Hütten:
- an: Apenimon, Meiz
- aus: Kendogan, Fimi, Empirate, Suite, Rob Anybody, Flunky, CocoRico, Piccadilly, KSL, SVE!V, JP, superjm, Donovan Zoi


Events:
- an: Apenimon, Kendogan, (Empirate), Suite, Rob Anybody, Flunky, CocoRico, SVE!V, JP, Meiz
- aus: Fimi, Piccadilly, KSL, Donovan Zoi
- only yes if events have been modified to remove the broken ones: superjm, superdeath

Barbs:
- an: Apenimon, Fimi, Suite, Rob Anybody, Flunky, Piccadilly, KSL, Meiz, superjm, Donovan Zoi
- aus: (Kendogan), Empirate, CocoRico, SVE!V, (JP)
- egal: (Kendogan), (JP)


Stadtübergabe (mit Schiriabsprache):
- ja: Apenimon, Empirate, Suite, Flunky, Piccadilly, KSL (Schenken mit Begründung ggü Schiri), JP (wie KSL)
- nein: CocoRico, SVE!V, Meiz, superjm, Donovan Zoi (Interesse an den Vorteilen, es zu erlauben)
- anderes:

- Kendogan: ja, mit adäquatem Gegenwert, eben nicht wie 73er Suite, Flunky
- egal: Fimi

KG:
- an: Meiz
- aus: Kendogan, Fimi, (Suite), Rob Anybody, (Flunky), CocoRico, Piccadilly, WP, nane, JP, superjm
- abgeschwächt: Apenimon, (Empirate), (Suite), (Flunky), KSL, SVE!V
- egal: Donovan Zoi

HS:
- selbst setzen: Apenimon, Kendogan, Fimi, Suite, Rob Anybody, Flunky, CocoRico, Piccadilly
- gesetzt: SVE!V?, JP
- egal: Empirate


Atomwaffen:
- an: Rob Anybody
- aus: Kendogan, Fimi, Empirate, Suite, Flunky, CocoRico, Piccadilly,
- anderes: JP (unentschieden)

- Apenimon: nur Lenkrakete

Wünsche bzgl. Städte:
- mindestens 5: Apeninom, Empirate
- Fimi: 5-8
- JP: 3-4 Städte



Wünsche bzgl. Karte:
- Kendogan: Keine Völkerwanderung, Startposotionen einigermaßen realistisch, Abweichung bei den doppelten Civs;
- Fimi: Völkerwanderung oder nicht egal;
- Empirate: schwache Präferenz für Realistische Startposi;
- Piccadilly: Realitätsnahe Weltkarte mit realitätsnahen Startpunkten (soweit möglich)
- Plemo: Karte ändern, wie zum Beispiel Landform anpassen, Kontinente versetzen, drehen oder spiegeln, Ressourcen verschieben oder Völkerwanderungen (Ägypter in Amerika), finde ich nett. Sind aber auch kein Muss.
- Apenimon: Ich wäre aber dafür, dass wenn auf einer leicht veränderten Weltkarte, die Anführer nicht nach Gechichte starten, also der Japaner in der Türkei, der Wikinger in Indien und der Indianer in Südafrika z.B., einfach damit sich ein ganz neues Spiel zum 73er entwickelt mit eigenen Energien und Spieloptionen.
- Coco: große Völkerwanderung
- JP: gegen Völkerwanderung

Also ich habe mich ebenfalls für Einheitenübergabe und für Stadtübergabe ausgesprochen.

[wahl-profi]

klar machen die Starttechs einen großen Unterschied, aber bis man den ersten BT draußen hat, hat man auch erforscht, was man zum Nahrungsanbau braucht. Außer man hat nur TZ-Nahrung im FC und startet weder mit Jagd noch mit LaWi, aber das kann der Kartenbauer ja von vornherein ausschließen.

Du meinst also so wie beim Römer in PB 72

[Lord of the Civ]

1. Play your turn as soon as you can. A fast turn pace is a happy turn pace.
2. If you can't play your turn(s) find a sub. Otherwise you might find it hard to get into future games. (Thanks retep)
3. The person declaring war can choose which half of the turn timer they get, so long as they didn't move after the victim on the previous turn.
4. Don't try to play after another player on a regular basis. If you are trying to prevent them getting the second half when they attack you then you're playing clock games and Krill will find your pathetic civ and crush it. If you are planning to attack them then just drop behind them one or two turns in advance (it's actually less likely to telegraph your intentions). In fact you can play before them the turn before you attack - there is no problem with letting your victim double move you.
5. If you are at war with someone don't log in before/after they've played unless they have given you explicit permission. (Edit: Controversy! See thread for details...)
6. In a peace-time turn split (eg a settling or hut-popping race) the turn you realise there should be a split is when the order is established.
7. The tech thread is not the place to argue about in-game issues in an AI diplo game - the lurkers should be able to get both points of view and arbitrate without giving spoilers. (If you haven't got many lurkers post in the tech thread asking lurkers to come look at your question).
8. Sending in-game messages with numbers and letters (gold and city names) are a grey area - assume they are banned unless the setup specifically allows them
No naming units with messages for other players. (I really want to play a variant of AI diplo where you are allowed to communicate, but only by gifting named units, but no-one else seams that keen alright)
9. Global lurkers should give no spoilers - even asking what turn someone plans to finish a wonder can tip them off that they have competition...
10. Don't hide your research by changing it just before the turn rolls
11. Try to only log in once per turn, or play all your moves in one session - this is harder for teams or if you have a surprise or simming to do, but it makes figuring out turn splits easier.
11. In the event of a reload forcing you to replay your turn, replay the turn exactly like you originally played it, to the best of your ability. (Thanks novice)
12. It is the responsibility of all players to check that the settings are correct once the game is hosted. (Thanks Krill)

That's pretty much our standards here as well.


In addition:
3. Yes, if you want to declare war in the first half the timer, you must not log in after your victim on the previos turn.
But over the years we have found more specific rules to be helpful.
- The aggressor is allowed to log in first in the new turn without finishing their turn, wait for the victim to log in and finish their tun, then log in again, declare war and finish their turn.
- If the victim has already logged in and finished their turn in the new turn, they are not allowed to log in again after a war declaration and thereby reversing the established turn order.

6. Turn split in peace-time is established by the referee with a coin toss.

8. Things like trading copper for copper is often seen as a non-aggression pact. It is allowed here as it is non-binding and can be used against you easily.

[Empirate]

People have been known to hide their research, too... KSL and Jesper both attempted to do so occasionally in PB73, as I remember.

Logging in only once is an unnecessary stipulation in my view - one of the main benefits to a player writing a story (which, after all, benefits the whole community) is that you can collect feedback on your plans and situation from readers. So it has been considered just fine to log in, capture a few screenies, log out, post pictures in your story, the log in again later to continue your turn. "What do you think, readers, should I work the watermill and mines all day long, or work the farms and whip next turn?" - things like that are standard here.

Finally, I don't think we've ever held anybody to repeating moves in the event of a reload - impossible to check (esp. with 52 players), and not really necessary most of the time.

[Lord of the Civ]

People have been known to hide their research, too... KSL and Jesper both attempted to do so occasionally in PB73, as I remember.

I don't remember that specifically. Nonetheless it is a dick move.

Logging in only once is an unnecessary stipulation in my view - one of the main benefits to a player writing a story (which, after all, benefits the whole community) is that you can collect feedback on your plans and situation from readers. So it has been considered just fine to log in, capture a few screenies, log out, post pictures in your story, the log in again later to continue your turn. "What do you think, readers, should I work the watermill and mines all day long, or work the farms and whip next turn?" - things like that are standard here.

You're right, didn't think of the writers for a second. But there were a few players who logged in excessively. But that's in the past.
And hence all the rules about when you can log in and still declare war.

Finally, I don't think we've ever held anybody to repeating moves in the event of a reload - impossible to check (esp. with 52 players), and not really necessary most of the time.

No, you should repeat your turn to the best of your ability (unless it was the reason for the reload of course) and not use it to your advantage, especially in the early stages of the game.

[Empirate]

Lots of dick moves are possible in this game. You want to declare all of them off limits? I think playing with the game clock is maybe a bit more on the unfair side than other things, but then, I don't think it's so exploit-y that it needs to be specifically forbidden.

[Lord of the Civ]

Just try to play as honourably as possible and with a sense of fair play.

[Ramkhamhaeng]

Zu den Pitboss-Regeln, die im RB-Forum üblich sind, will ich eine Sache einwenden.
Beim Zugrecht nach Kriegserklärungen gibt es meines Wissens nach einen Unterschied:

Dort ist folgendes Szenario erlaubt:
1. Spieler A zieht und beendet seine Runde.
2. Spieler B zieht und beendet seine Runde.
3. Spieler A loggt sich erneut ein und erklärt B den Krieg (und zieht Einheiten).

So war es jedenfalls in diesem Beispiel (RB45), wo eine Triere versenkt wurde. Die Statements der User dazu haben mich überrascht, da ich anders entschieden hätte.

Bei uns wäre dies nicht möglich, Spieler A könnte erst nach dem Rundenwechsel den Krieg erklären.

[Lord of the Civ]

Weißt Du, welche Events sie bei RB rausgemoddet haben, Ramk? Wäre vielleicht auch eine Idee für uns.

[klops]

In deinem Beispiel könnte A aber als Zweitzieher Krieg erklären, oder nicht? (also die KE als letzte Handlung, nicht sofort angreifen)

[naufragarRB]

Zu den Pitboss-Regeln, die im RB-Forum üblich sind, will ich eine Sache einwenden...

Tschuldigung. Koenntest du die Spielen aus RB anzeigen, die du verlinkst? Ich haette nicht es klicken sollen.

***
Sorry, could you indicate which games you link from RB? I shouldn't have clicked on that one. (Edited for clarity, hopefully.)

[Lord of the Civ]

Weißt Du, welche Events sie bei RB rausgemoddet haben, Ramk? Wäre vielleicht auch eine Idee für uns.

Hab's gefunden:

RtR 4.1.1.6:
The following events have been removed from the game:

Negative Events:
1. Forest Fire
5. Washed out
10 Careless apprentice
11. Famine
12. Slave revolt
15. Farm Bandits
18. Fugitive
19. Pestilence
21. Faux Pas
22. Joyous Wedding
23. Wedding Feud
24. Left at the Altar
26. Tornado
29. Looters
30. Brothers in need
31. Hurricane
32. Cyclone
33. Tsunami
34. Monsoon
35. Blizzard
36. Volcano
37. Dust Bowl
42. Clunker Coal
43. Sour crude
50. Mining accident
52. Setbacks
54. Great depression
55. Bermuda triangle
70. Influenza
71. Solo Flight
77. Ancient Olympics
78. Modern Olympics
80. Earth day
92. Cigarette Smoker
93. Heroic Gesture
94. Great Mediator
99. The Huns
100. The Vandals
101. the Goths
102. The Philistines
103. The Vedic Aryans
104. Holy ritual
132. Spoiled grain
135. Industrial fire
155. Slave revolt warning
160. Defecting agent
161. Jail
162. Spy discovered
163. Nuclear protests
165. Broken Dam
169. Toxcatl
170. Dissident Priest
172. Rogue station
174. Impeachment

Remove (Too good):
9. Hymns and sculptures
20. Marathon
28. Bards tale
64. Federal reserve
139. Partisans
167. Golden Buddha

Quests (Too good):
13. Blessed sea
121. Harbomaster
125. Sports league
149. Guns Butter
151. Overwhelm
152. Corporate expansion
153. Hostile takeover

[Krill]

That's pretty much our standards here as well.


In addition:
3. Yes, if you want to declare war in the first half the timer, you must not log in after your victim on the previos turn.
But over the years we have found more specific rules to be helpful.
- The aggressor is allowed to log in first in the new turn without finishing their turn, wait for the victim to log in and finish their tun, then log in again, declare war and finish their turn.
- If the victim has already logged in and finished their turn in the new turn, they are not allowed to log in again after a war declaration and thereby reversing the established turn order.

6. Turn split in peace-time is established by the referee with a coin toss.

8. Things like trading copper for copper is often seen as a non-aggression pact. It is allowed here as it is non-binding and can be used against you easily.

At RB we play as your comments for rules 3 and 8 state. Rule 6 we do not use a coin toss, because double moves are calculated from previous log in and when turns are ended, but with a disagreement we would still have a game admin make a decision.

[Krill]

Uh, RtR 4.1.1.6 is a test mod. We are using it in RBPB46. There are significant changes compared to earlier mod versions, and there are already tweaks I want to implement in further test versions. I could have this done in a few days for you. Charriu also has a version of this mod integrated with BUG mod but this still needs significant testing for stability.

That said: I believe that the 4.1.1.6 mod version would be better than the base game for what you want to play. But then, I've done most of the design work, so I have to say that...

[Jesper Portus]

Also Forschung verstecken mache ich nicht.